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Lauredhel is an Australian woman and mother with a disability. She blogs about disability and accessibility, social and reproductive justice, gender, freedom from violence, the uses and misuses of language, medical science, otters, gardening, and cooking.

This author has written 1549 posts for Hoyden About Town. Read more about Lauredhel »

34 responses to ““It’s just like a normal external bra!”Snoopy-nosed Redundant Skin Envelopes”

  1. Mark Bahnisch

    http://feministe.powweb.com/blog/archives/2007/08/13/thinking-outside-the-bra/

    What does it say that a blog called “Feministe” just doesn’t get it?

  2. Mark Bahnisch

    I was chatting to tigtog when I was down in Sydney recently about a friend of mine who’d given up on some of the US feminist blogs on the grounds that they were sometimes anything but. I can kinda see why now.

  3. Mark Bahnisch

    I can understand the latter – but the absence of cynicism is a worry. Maybe there’s a bit of a cultural disconnect with our US friends at work?

  4. Mark Bahnisch

    Well I used to think (and say) that the world might be a marginally better place if there were 300 million Australians and 20 million Americans rather than the other way around, but ten years and more of John Howard has caused some rethinking.

    I think it’s precisely blind spots which are crying out to us to be filled in that reveal the finer texture of cultural difference. And the cultural difference between Australia and America is very real – even if we think we’re on the same political ground.

  5. Mark Bahnisch

    Oh, but I completely agree. that was the point of my comment about rethinking.

  6. Brooklynite

    It’s safer than breast surgery because it is breast surgery!

    Wait. No.

  7. Liz

    I love the way that it looks like it self-selects women who have almost-but-not-quite-patriarchally-perfect perky breasts, just “suffering” a little from the effects of gravity or motherhood, or both. As problematic as the normalising effect of a bra is in eliding natural variations in bust shape, at least the concept of a bra is customisable to offer necessary support to women with large and/or pendulous breasts. I can’t imagine this idea would ever work for someone of my bust size and shape without a radical breast reduction first. Only naturally gender-conforming women need apply, for a little fine-tuning of their anxieties as well as their chests.

  8. ohmykozy

    Ah, Brooklynite beat me to it!

    “Our device is safer than breast surgery”

    Q: in what way is this not breast surgery?????

  9. outfox

    Mark, I kind of hear you, but Feministe is pretty good overall. Agreed that it’s about cultural blindspots, and to a degree USA feminists having to confront a more polarised political field than us.

    But across USA and AU I’d say the major cultural blindspots within feminism remain domestic – between women who have the cultural and economic capital to be represented in feminism and broader politics or not.

  10. outfox

    re: the “is it not breast surgery” Any health policy geeks here?

    Because the topic of blurring the line between cosmetic surgery came up at a public health seminar I went to last year, where the wonks were livid that increasing cosmetic surgery demand impacts upon funding & staffing for medically necessary procedures.

    Partially this was implied as resulting from outright fraud of Medicare, but there were aspects about investment in education and infrastructure that I didn’t get. Anyone?

  11. zuzu

    What does it say that a blog called “Feministe” just doesn’t get it?

    It says “guest-blogger.” Sara’s not a Feministe regular.

    I’m no longer a regular there, either, but I’m rather horrified at this thing. First, how can you test this accurately on an animal that doesn’t walk upright?

    But more importantly, this hardly looks “minimally invasive.” So, unnecessary, invasive surgery with little study of long-term effects or what happens when the person getting this little boost does something active (hardly a foreign concept to Israelis, since women all have to serve in the military). But it’s just like an external bra!

  12. Lauredhel

    I’m guessing they’re going for the “not breast surgery” weaselclaimer because the implant placement doesn’t involve chopping into or removing glandular tissue (though it may well disrupt milk ducts, and of course involves all sorts of other rather invasive stuff like suspending wires from your first rib, and a whole lot of fiddle-faddling about under the skin.

    What sort of wonks were getting hot under the collar about what sorts of procedures in what sort of funding model? I know there’s been a fair kerfuffle this week over the restriction on publicly-funded neonatal male circumcision in Victorian hospitals to medically necessary circumcision only; no longer can new parents get their freebie neonatal cosmetic foreskin amputation thrown in as a birth perk.

    The resulting outcry focussed on how UNFAIR it was that circumcision was being BANNED and about how now they would all just GO and get their own circs done with FILTHY RUSTY KNIVES and it would be YOUUUUUUR FAULT.

    Of course, without neonatal circumcision, Bubba might have a few more weeks of trauma noticing that his microwinkie has a hoodie while Daddy’s has a visible glans (and a shock of hair, and veins, and is fifteen times the size, along with the rest of him). But those few weeks between birth and being able to organise a private-sector circumcision may just be enough to scar him psychosexually and give him Daddy issues for life.

  13. Sara

    I wrote the post at Feministe, and I should point out that I’m a guest poster. And I do realize that this thing might not work out well, and I’m not signing up to go under the knife any time soon. But as someone who feels sort of chained to bras, I might like to have the boob-holding-up benefits built into my body if it were possible.

  14. Rachel

    “Snoopy-nosed.” Heh. Thanks for the link, and for pointing out the oddity of calling something “abnormal” while acknowledging the ubiquitous nature of gravity and aging.

  15. tigtog

    As some regular readers know, I had a breast reduction mammoplasty in 2003, due to constant and increasing intrascapular pain. It was a great success, however:

    I couldn’t do vigorous exercise for a full two years after that operation. Obviously I expected the convalescent period afterwards to last for several months, but I had to be gentle for much longer than that, and I still occasionally get surprised. I can do yoga, I can swim, I can powerwalk, I can work hard in the garden – but I still wouldn’t be keen on jogging or raquet sports (and I used to love squash).

    The problem for me is the skin scar tissue and the scarring immediately beneath the skin: unexpected vigorous movement can still pull and sting. The idea of having not only that scarring, but something sitting internally that is attached and pulling on the ribs and fascia as well?

    It would have to be worse than what I have to work around. It would have to be limiting.

  16. XtinaS

    I wrote about this thisaway, and bless you for picking up on the use of the word ‘ptosis’.  I couldn’t even think on the whole tested-on-pigs part; that’ll have to wait until I can poke at this some more.

  17. Gayle

    How exactly are you supposed to feel a lump forming under that thing? I don’t know how plastic surgeries of this type circumvent the “first do no harm” oath. Isn’t unneeded surgery doing some harm?

    Tigtog, I have a friend who went through the same procedure as you and I wouldn’t put it in the same league at all. She had terrible back pain all of her life; that surgery provided long-term relief.

    I’m sorry you’ve experienced negative effects. Her only complaint is that she can’t really feel much of anything as they cut the nerves to her areolas.

  18. Mia

    Waagh! They’re pathologising age! (In women only, obv.)

    And feministe is shocking. I just went and commented there.

  19. tigtog

    Gayle, my only minor negative effect is due to having the sort of skin that forms lumpy scars – as do many other people. It is minor – it’s not that I feel pulls and stings every day, but it definitely does discourage me from fully vigorous exercise. The relief from pain more than compensates for this minor drawback, and I can do more vigorous exercise since the operation than I could do before it.

    I paid more to have my surgeon preserve the nerve pedicle to my areolas rather than simply severing the tissue. Mostly successful in preserving sensation, although I already had sensory loss simply due to the weight dragging on my nerve tissue for years before the reduction. Not everybody can afford that extra procedure and not every surgeon offers it.

    The surgeons offering cosmetic breast “enhancement” procedures rarely frankly disclose the risks to sensation (and breastfeeding potential) due to their work – it’s mentioned just as much as legally required and handwaved away.

  20. amandaw

    Breast droopage is now a medical abnormality that requires surgery?

    *sigh*

  21. Mr Tog

    I can work hard in the garden.

    This has yet to be tested empirically.

    (Apologies for flippancy).

  22. kate

    Presumably the new cure for penises not being fully erect and ready to pleasure hetero women at a moments notice will involve some sort of scaffolding.

  23. tigtog

    I can assure the readership that Mr Tog is not the one who pulls the weeds and prunes the bouganvillea. He does however have other talents.

  24. Dave Bath

    The pathophysiology you talk about “relaxation of the Cooper’s ligaments” is not so much relaxation is time/gravity induced breakage of elastin fibres and thoroughly normal as you correctly state.

    Back when I was studying, the “ptosis” was not discussed, the result of stretching of “The suspensory ligaments of Sir Astley Cooper” was known as “Cooper’s Droop” (nothing to do with “Foster’s flop”). Maybe “Cooper’s Droop” sounds too Anglo-Saxon to be medicalized – it needs a good latin/greek name for that.

    Aah, the wonders of medicalizing normality: so good for the wallets of industry!

    But, and here’s the twist: you can use this bit of medicalizing: if health funds are prepared to cough up for surgery, they should be very happy to cough up for prophylactic devices that prevent the larger expense, and thus women should be able to claim on the significant costs of decent bras.

  25. zuzu

    I am reminded of Bette Midler’s routine about Otto Titsling, the inventer of the over-the-shoulder-boulder-holder.

    As for the pathologizing of women’s bodies: remember a few years ago, when “micromastia” was invented?

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