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	<title>Comments on: Oh yeah, hit that strawfeminist harder, she&#8217;s still standing up</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/</link>
	<description>Feminist Revolution: one cartwheel at a time</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:30:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: kate</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/comment-page-1/#comment-14819</link>
		<dc:creator>kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=879#comment-14819</guid>
		<description>&quot;I&#039;m not against economic progress, I just don&#039;t think it&#039;s the only progress worth making.&quot;

I&#039;d add that if the few make great economic gains at the expense of the many, the many get shirty, and they have a tendency to start stealing, and setting fire to stuff. One way and another it doesn&#039;t benefit the few that much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m not against economic progress, I just don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the only progress worth making.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d add that if the few make great economic gains at the expense of the many, the many get shirty, and they have a tendency to start stealing, and setting fire to stuff. One way and another it doesn&#8217;t benefit the few that much.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/comment-page-1/#comment-14813</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=879#comment-14813</guid>
		<description>The whole &quot;my wife doesn&#039;t need to work&quot; thing has always been a status symbol.  Plenty of women have bought into it, but it&#039;s a marker of socioeconomic class, not a biologically determined division of labour.

Imagine if the whole country was predicated on 20 solid hours a week generating a basic, solid living wage.  People could live healthily as singles, and if a couple decided to cohabit and raise children they could benefit from the double income and apart from the postnatal physical convalescence period could totally share parenting/household duties while both maintaining a career and independent financial security in case they end up divorcing, as so many do. 

There was a time that such a lifestyle for most was the way the Western economy was heading.  But somehow a healthy and contented populace was deemed less important than pushing up the stockmarket.

I&#039;m not against economic progress, I just don&#039;t think it&#039;s the only progress worth making.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole &#8220;my wife doesn&#8217;t need to work&#8221; thing has always been a status symbol.  Plenty of women have bought into it, but it&#8217;s a marker of socioeconomic class, not a biologically determined division of labour.</p>
<p>Imagine if the whole country was predicated on 20 solid hours a week generating a basic, solid living wage.  People could live healthily as singles, and if a couple decided to cohabit and raise children they could benefit from the double income and apart from the postnatal physical convalescence period could totally share parenting/household duties while both maintaining a career and independent financial security in case they end up divorcing, as so many do. </p>
<p>There was a time that such a lifestyle for most was the way the Western economy was heading.  But somehow a healthy and contented populace was deemed less important than pushing up the stockmarket.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not against economic progress, I just don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the only progress worth making.</p>
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		<title>By: kate</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/comment-page-1/#comment-14810</link>
		<dc:creator>kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=879#comment-14810</guid>
		<description>The stay at home mother who only looks after her own house and kids is indeed an aberation. One of my great-grandmothers, for example, stayed at home with her (large) family. She also tended chooks and pigs, raised veggies, and was the woman all the other local women called on when they needed a midwife. She did all that while her husband was an itinerant worker, and therefore working away from home a lot. 

She had four times more children than the current national average, her husband was inclined to drink his wages on occasion, she ran a small farm and had paid (although badly) work she got called out for. Hardly &#039;comfort and security&#039;. I haven&#039;t checked, but I&#039;d bet you anything you like her marriage and death certificates, and her children&#039;s birth certificates list her as having no occupation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The stay at home mother who only looks after her own house and kids is indeed an aberation. One of my great-grandmothers, for example, stayed at home with her (large) family. She also tended chooks and pigs, raised veggies, and was the woman all the other local women called on when they needed a midwife. She did all that while her husband was an itinerant worker, and therefore working away from home a lot. </p>
<p>She had four times more children than the current national average, her husband was inclined to drink his wages on occasion, she ran a small farm and had paid (although badly) work she got called out for. Hardly &#8216;comfort and security&#8217;. I haven&#8217;t checked, but I&#8217;d bet you anything you like her marriage and death certificates, and her children&#8217;s birth certificates list her as having no occupation.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/comment-page-1/#comment-14809</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=879#comment-14809</guid>
		<description>These MNDers resent the change in the typical family landscape: most probably grew up at a time when a single bluecollar skilled-worker wage was enough income to provide suburban comfort for a whole family, so that bluecollar families could afford to only have one adult working while the other (nearly always mother) stayed at home with the kids and polished the house. 

This was a matter of great pride to our whole society, because most of those people knew that their own mothers had had to go out to work to provide a comfortable household when they were growing up - it was a sign of progress and prosperity.  It was also expected that technological advances would lead to the breadwinners also working reduced hours and having more leisure time over the next decades.

But that sort of economic abundance wasn&#039;t true before the fifties and has been receding since the seventies, so that we&#039;re back to a situation where unless you&#039;re up in the socioeconomic bracket where most of your income is from investments, then to live in suburban comfort requires two incomes. (And we still don&#039;t have flying cars, either.) 

Of course, the MNDers probably blame feminism for the double-income necessity now instead of laying the blame where it belongs: 
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;* technological advances have downgraded the status (and pay) of most skilled bluecollar work, and instead of having fewer hours for everyone at a living wage we now have longer hours (and high incomes) for a few and the sack for everyone else;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;* and escalating consumerism and a rollback of egalitarian principles according to the ideology of economic rationalism have increased the cost of living.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These MNDers resent the change in the typical family landscape: most probably grew up at a time when a single bluecollar skilled-worker wage was enough income to provide suburban comfort for a whole family, so that bluecollar families could afford to only have one adult working while the other (nearly always mother) stayed at home with the kids and polished the house. </p>
<p>This was a matter of great pride to our whole society, because most of those people knew that their own mothers had had to go out to work to provide a comfortable household when they were growing up &#8211; it was a sign of progress and prosperity.  It was also expected that technological advances would lead to the breadwinners also working reduced hours and having more leisure time over the next decades.</p>
<p>But that sort of economic abundance wasn&#8217;t true before the fifties and has been receding since the seventies, so that we&#8217;re back to a situation where unless you&#8217;re up in the socioeconomic bracket where most of your income is from investments, then to live in suburban comfort requires two incomes. (And we still don&#8217;t have flying cars, either.) </p>
<p>Of course, the MNDers probably blame feminism for the double-income necessity now instead of laying the blame where it belongs: </p>
<ul>
<li>* technological advances have downgraded the status (and pay) of most skilled bluecollar work, and instead of having fewer hours for everyone at a living wage we now have longer hours (and high incomes) for a few and the sack for everyone else;</li>
<li>* and escalating consumerism and a rollback of egalitarian principles according to the ideology of economic rationalism have increased the cost of living.</li>
</ul>
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		<title>By: Tracey</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/comment-page-1/#comment-14807</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=879#comment-14807</guid>
		<description>&quot;so their wives could live in safety and comfort&quot;

Wow.  So, unpaid domestic labor, vulnerability to domestic violence and sexual assault, and a lack of reproductive rights sure sounds like safety and comfort to me.  He&#039;s right.  Women have always had it so easy while the menfolk were busting their humps to provide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;so their wives could live in safety and comfort&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow.  So, unpaid domestic labor, vulnerability to domestic violence and sexual assault, and a lack of reproductive rights sure sounds like safety and comfort to me.  He&#8217;s right.  Women have always had it so easy while the menfolk were busting their humps to provide.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/comment-page-1/#comment-14806</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=879#comment-14806</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Kate.  Apart from overlooking the pay issue, the stereotypes make one&#039;s teeth grind: the MND mob&#039;s stuff is all predicated on all women being SAHMs.  They have no understanding of June Cleaver as a temporary aberration, an artefact of post-war suburban sprawl for the middle-classes, when we know historically that most women have always had to work outside the home - laundresses as above, seamstresses (vision problems, toxic chemicals in dyes), gleaners/threshers and associated agricultural worker risks, herders etc.  These hardworking women were expected to come home and do the housework while the men expected to be waited upon, and while the women would be paid for their outside work they weren&#039;t paid for their housework, and that&#039;s hardly changed and that&#039;s what sucks.

Maybe when we&#039;ve all got little e-secretary attachments noting down how every single minute of the day is spent, and everybody can throw up their stats on the screen, maybe then these people will finally believe that women work a significant second unpaid shift.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Kate.  Apart from overlooking the pay issue, the stereotypes make one&#8217;s teeth grind: the MND mob&#8217;s stuff is all predicated on all women being SAHMs.  They have no understanding of June Cleaver as a temporary aberration, an artefact of post-war suburban sprawl for the middle-classes, when we know historically that most women have always had to work outside the home &#8211; laundresses as above, seamstresses (vision problems, toxic chemicals in dyes), gleaners/threshers and associated agricultural worker risks, herders etc.  These hardworking women were expected to come home and do the housework while the men expected to be waited upon, and while the women would be paid for their outside work they weren&#8217;t paid for their housework, and that&#8217;s hardly changed and that&#8217;s what sucks.</p>
<p>Maybe when we&#8217;ve all got little e-secretary attachments noting down how every single minute of the day is spent, and everybody can throw up their stats on the screen, maybe then these people will finally believe that women work a significant second unpaid shift.</p>
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		<title>By: kate</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070831.879/oh-yeah-hit-that-strawfeminist-harder-shes-still-standing-up/comment-page-1/#comment-14805</link>
		<dc:creator>kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=879#comment-14805</guid>
		<description>World&#039;s Worst Jobs (Tony Robinson on the ABC)a few weeks ago highlighted the dangers associated with laundry work in times gone by. Professional washerwomen did heaps of heavy lifting, commonly died when they fell into wells and rivers while collecting water, and handled lye without gloves. Lye is now commonly known as CAUSTIC SODA so it&#039;s not great on the skin, particularly not if you&#039;re exposed to it every day.

But yes, as you say, the issue was the lack of pay on the domestic front. A lack of pay that makes it very difficult for women to leave their partners, even if that partner is beating them up, rather than protecting them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>World&#8217;s Worst Jobs (Tony Robinson on the ABC)a few weeks ago highlighted the dangers associated with laundry work in times gone by. Professional washerwomen did heaps of heavy lifting, commonly died when they fell into wells and rivers while collecting water, and handled lye without gloves. Lye is now commonly known as CAUSTIC SODA so it&#8217;s not great on the skin, particularly not if you&#8217;re exposed to it every day.</p>
<p>But yes, as you say, the issue was the lack of pay on the domestic front. A lack of pay that makes it very difficult for women to leave their partners, even if that partner is beating them up, rather than protecting them.</p>
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