Cognitive dissonance in the Seduction Community

This (long) post is inspired by the tapes of self-styled seduction guru Dimitri The Lover (AKA James Sears) that are being discussed on blogs all over at the moment (or at least linked to with a LOLOLOL!!1!), and the arguments as to whether they are genuine recordings of a creep or performance art from a guy engaging in viral marketing for a movie. I’ll get to them later, but first a little about the background of the “seduction community”, because Sears claims to be a different kind of seduction guru.

There’s been a lot written about the seduction community (AKA players/PUAs (Pick Up Artists)) in the last few years, and it’s worth emphasising here that most men join these (largely online) communities because they are simply looking to gain more confidence when interacting with women, that there’s nothing wrong in principle with seeking sex without commitment for either men or women as long as everybody’s being emotionally honest and physically safe/sane, and that most of these men probably do ultimately want a committed relationship one day. These points are usually clouded by the best-known Community gurus emphasising cynical bedpost-notching above all (and making a lot of money talking about the ways that their special techniques allegedly make women powerless to resist them).

One of the aims of the Community is to correct a common problem for inexperienced men – an overly romantic view of women as sweet, pure and sexually demure that makes these men overly hesitant and overly eager to please. The Community doesn’t tend to mention that this package usually includes a belief that sex is inherently dirty, resulting in a side-serve of self-loathing for their desire to defile women, which is the part of their attitude that is most offputting, rather than the common plaint that the men are just “being too nice”.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with correcting the pernicious stereotype that sex sullies women and that men must supplicate and compensate women for their dirty male desires. Done properly it can lead to a more realistic, relaxed and confident style of social interaction that both sexes can appreciate. Unfortunately, instead of moving away from gender-stereotypes to view women as people with highly individual wants and needs (that often do actually include sex for fun with the right person at the right time), what tends to happen in the Community is that one gender-stereotype is replaced with another: women as fickle, emotional, selfish and easily manipulated. The idea that sex demeans women remains, but is recast as sluts deserve to be demeaned. Then the Community wonders why folks (not just feminists) find fault with their collective wisdom.

The potential for scammers fleecing the naive is also a problem, and should be criticised just as any other exploitative business model that promises the moon and ends up only being mouldy cheese. Of course, the online forums generally cost nothing more than an internet connection. Many wannabe gurus dish out a lot of free advice on these forums, and are Community heroes for doing so. It has however been noted that many of these wannabe gurus having status as “players” on these forums and basking in being the “come-to guys” for advice actually have only very average dating skills. As Chris (former Lonely Guy, keen PUA student and now “contentedly average when it comes to women” advisor on acquiring social skills) points out in A Long List of Ways the Seduction Community Can Make You Weird, for most people in the world dating and sex is simply a normal part of being a well-adjusted adult, and this distorted worldview of dating and sex as an elite achievement leads to some very weird attitudes.

These attitudes can result in inappropriate behaviours, especially when some men start interpreting all other social situations through the lens of Community concepts of relationships as sexual status “games” that must be “played”. Game Theory is a fascinating field of study, but its mathematical validity relies on vastly simplified assumptions and models. In the real world relationships are more complicated and fluid, and while people may often be playing status “games” they’re generally playing several intersecting games simultaneously, and not every status game is about sexual status. If you’re playing one game while those around you are playing another, you just look like a klutz.

For some, the PUA game becomes so important they forget that originally they joined the community mostly as a way to find a regular girlfriend, and turn their back on compatible women who actually like them for the sake of more notches on the bedpost. More from Chris:

This ‘give up your life’ mentality can also lead guys to shun regular relationships for the cause of improving their game. In the Community there’s a general belief that if a guy gets a girlfriend, especially before becoming a card carrying PUA, that he’s quitting. He’s betrayed the scene. He’s turning his back on his mates. He can’t hack it and is dropping out of the race. If he says it’s because the girl makes him feel happy, he’s just rationalizing what a loser he is. When well known people in the Community get a girlfriend, there’s always this sense of shock and suspicion, like how could he do something so crazy? It’s okay to have a harem of fuck buddies or be in an open relationship, but just seeing one girl? That’s wussy AFC stuff. (As an aside, I find Community advice towards relationships preoccupied with power dynamics and the guy always having the upper hand).

So, that’s the Seduction Community background. On to Dimitri the Lover/James Sears – he claims to be different from the other Players, and if you’ve heard the tape of voice messages he left on one woman’s phone (links/transcript below, read the rest first!), he certainly is that, although not in the way that he advertises himself to be. Dimitri The Lover has a history in the online seduction forums, where he mocks standard Community techniques such as “negs”, “sarges”, “wingmen” and NLP subliminals as dishonest gaming (yup) that are demeaning (yes!) to anyone who is a Real Man (uh-oh).

Here’s a photo of one of the flyers for his meetings in Toronto, Canada. To me it appears loaded with concepts and jargon that would only appeal to someone who had already been primed by reading Community forums and taking on board the most negative stereotypes of women that the Community has to offer:


Source: Photo by Treforlutions from the Torontoist Flickr Pool.

Sears claims that he gets teh hawt womenz simply by being totally honest about being a perverted sex pig (self description) and awakening their “inner slut”. Here’s a sample of his spiel:

Up until a year ago I had absolutely no interest in teaching men the secret of how I get women to do the dirtiest, nastiest things ON THE FIRST DATE without spending a dime. But now I am on a mission to help as many men as possible penetrate and ejaculate into as many female orifices as possible in as little time as possible. I am a big pervert. I look at women as “tri-orificed beings” to be conquered and enslaved. I will teach you how to make women worship your cock.

WHY HAVE I FINALLY DECIDED TO SHARE MY SECRETS WITH YOU?

Up until now I have only shared my powerful seduction methods with close friends … let’s face it, we did not want competition. But over the last 12 months I have become enraged as I observed greedy scammers create bogus seduction programs merely to cash in on the seduction trend. They have saturated the seduction industry with dubious seduction programs. I cannot stand to see desperate, unfucked men taken advantage of. Have you all gone mad? Are you men that naïve? Do you honestly believe that using subliminal words, insulting women, hypnotizing women, etc., will get you laid for real? Why has MYSTERY abandoned the MYSTERY METHOD for the VENUSIAN ARTS? Do either of them actually work? Do you want to DOUBLE YOUR DATING? How about becoming BISEXUAL! But seriously …

Are you confused by all the contradictory methods offered by hundreds of guys, each claiming to be the “ULTIMATE PICK UP ARTIST”? Are you uncomfortable using lies to seduce women? Did you get angry when the supposedly secret MYSTERY METHOD you paid thousands of dollars to learn was revealed to millions of women on THE PICK UP ARTIST on VH1? Well guess what … inquiries from men interested in PICK UP ARTIST PUA DIRECT SEDUCTION COURSES visiting [website URL redacted] RIGHT NOW reveal that you’re not alone. If you are at least average looking, but penetrating less than 10 new female orifices each month,
then you have not attained your full sexual potential. You wasted your hard-earned money on hyped-up scam pick up programs.

He’s certainly direct, bluntly so, in this spiel (that’s only a taste).

And because I am an honest guy who cannot lie if my life depended on it, I learned to get laid in a completely straight fashion without gimmicks or tricks. I learned to bring out a woman’s inner slut by speaking in a very nasty and dirty way, but in such an eloquent manner that a woman becomes intrigued and wants to have sex immediately. I am now 44 years old but still primarily bang girls in the 18-25 range. ANY MAN CAN BE TAUGHT TO DO IT TOO!!!
[…]
My secret? Using criteria I developed over many years, I chose to only approach women which displayed a certain style and gait
indicative of a SLUT DESPERATE FOR COMPANIONSHIP, then customized my opening lines to each slut’s unique psychological profile.

But is Dimitri actually totally honest about being a big pervert when he approaches the women he’s intuited are desperate sluts?

It wouldn’t seem so from the evidence of the voice messages that a woman named Olga has made available – he approached her, she gave him her business card (probably just as a get-out from an uncomfortable situation) and below is the result (you can hear the tape at holytaco.com’s post The Douchiest Phone Message In History), here is the transcript (hat-tip to sabotabby in comments at PunkassBlog for transcribing) but it’s worth hearing his speaking style on the recording to get the full recoil effect:

Message 1: Yeah hi there Olga it’s Dimitri. Sorry I had to leave such a rushed message with you when we, uh, met the other day, I just wanted to quickly give you my phone number and I had to get the heck out of the area. In any event, I thought I better leave you a more detailed message and explain why I approached you. IIIIIIII am single. I have no trouble meeting women. I mean, women approach me six, seven times a day. But I’m very particular about what I like. You’re extremely elegant. I couldn’t take my eyes off of you and your friends were very jealous. Even if they say they weren’t, they were envious of the fact that I approached you and I was very taken by you.

Elegant women are very rare. I’m Greek and I’m very particular about what I like. So I’m giving you an opportunity here. I don’t know if you pick up the messages on the weekend but I’m working on a movie script so I’m pretty much around all weekend doing that. I left you my number. [Reads phone number but volume is turned down on site.] This looks like a landline and if it is, you may not get the message til Monday but when you do call me and then we’ll get together for coffee and chat and let the romance begin.

You looked very taken aback by my approach and I hope that isn’t timidness I hope it was just a little bit of, uh, shock at being approached so, um, ah, directly. Because I don’t really date timid women. Because I’m a very direct, very passionate, very assertive man and I want a woman who’s very independent and strong. So, ah, anyway, we’ll talk about that, but I just wanted to formally introduce myself. Now I have. I leave the ball in your court. You call me as soon as you, ah, have the courage to. Okay, Olga? Talk to you soon. Bye.

Message 2: Hi there Olga. It’s Dimitri calling again, the guy from the street. I left you a message several days ago, you said you were interested. Now here’s the way I work. I don’t like leaving second messages but I like you, you’re a very elegant woman, you’re very attractive but, you know, I don’t play that game. I know your friends tell you not to return calls, you’re playing games like you see on stupid TV shows.

Here’s how it’s gonna work. It is now 4:30 on Wednesday. Now I’ll asssssume, I’ll assume that you’ve already left work, because, you know, some people leave early and I’ll grant you that. But if I do not receive a phone call back from you by 3:00 Thursday afternoon, I’m no longer interested and you can erase my number. I don’t play games like that. I’m completely single, I’m very intelligent, I’m great in bed, I make great money believe it or not, I’m a complete caaatch. I’ve only been single four months, I had a long-distance relationship, you know, it went a year, it’s very tough to maintain it like that and it didn’t work out.

There’s nothing wrong with me. As a matter of fact, I’m one of the few men in this city who has nothing wrong with him.

So I’m giving you that 3:00 deadline. If I don’t hear from you, you lose my number. I’m erasing yours right now. So you won’t be hearing back from me. So that’s it. 3:00 tomorrow or you can just completely forget it.

Now, I understand if you’ve got other issues. Maybe you’re not playing games, maybe you had, I dunno, maybe you were abused in childhood, maybe your mother has cancer you’re going to chemo, maybe you’re just a person who’s extremely frightened or has an anxiety disorder. Maybe you’re on some medication for that, I don’t know. There could be another issue that I’m not aware of. But NOBODY says “call me,” hands a person a business card, and then doesn’t return calls. It’s extremely passive-aggressive. You should actually look that up: passive-aggressive personality disorder.

And you let me know. If you’ve got issues, psychological issues, if you’re on any sort of medication for anxiety or depression, I’m not interested. Okay? But if you’re psycholooogically normal, and you haven’t called me because there’s been some horrible thing that’s happened in your life which prevented you, that’s fine. But otherwise, don’t call me.

Okay? Bye.

Where to start? Although he’s certainly discussing his wish to have sex with her openly, there’s nothing here which is being honest about him being “a big pervert” who wants to “do the dirtiest and nastiest things on the first date”. And despite his stated contempt for Community techniques, that line about her being timid in the first message looks an awful lot like a “neg” to me, and the second message is virtually all “negs”.

As for this line:

But NOBODY says “call me,” hands a person a business card, and then doesn’t return calls.

What utter poppycock. This is very common in the business world either because people reconsider the interaction afterwards, or because the handover of the business card was only being used as a tactic to end a conversation viewed as a timewaster or otherwise discomforting. In either case, people know that returning the call only encourages someone whom they’ve already decided to avoid.

This tactic holds many times over for women dealing with persistent men in whom they are not sexually interested. Some might say, in both business and personal interactions, that it would be better to be honest, and from a manners or purely ethical point of view they would be correct. However, there is also the pragmatic self-preservation point of view to consider – being honest may lead to confrontation, and confrontation is unpleasant, embarrassing and also potentially dangerous. It only takes one incident of being yelled at in a bar after refusing to hand over a phone number (for being a snobby bitch who’s too up herself to give a guy a go) for women to avoid subjecting themselves to that again by any means possible. Perhaps Olga could have had the whole second message delivered live in person from a large hostile stranger if she hadn’t given him a card – what an enticing prospect! For Sears at age 44 to say nobody does that in seriousness strikes me as disingenuous to the extreme.

This tape has been discussed all over the net lately, and there’s continued low-level suggestions that it’s all just a bit of viral marketing for a documentary/reality TV show that he has in development and that he may have successfully “played” the internets. Certainly Sears’ site claims that he is working on a script etc, but various bloggers who have investigated have severe doubts about the viability of the project – the alleged production company is not Googleable, and if his much-vaunted animations are anything to go by, any project helmed by Dimitri will never be greenlighted. (WARNING – these animations are totally NSFW, Not Safe For Sentient Beings in fact – Worship, Conception, Dykes, Real Men, Dimitri)

The animations, apart from having production values so low that a high schooler wouldn’t brag about wasting a weekend on them (but they allegedly cost him thousands of dollars), are basically offensive for the sake of causing offense – he wants people to be up in arms about The Church of Dimitri of Latter Day Sluts full of women worshipping The Prophet’s (guess who that is?) penis. He brags about how they’ve been removed from YouTube and other video hosting services due to complaints. In one scene he is crucified for his beliefs in what is simply a gratuitous slam at Canada’s anti-blasphemy laws, in another he goes back in time and impregnates the Virgin Mary (making himself by an act of logic therefore God) and he writes “humorous” press releases about sacrificing seven virgins (their virginity at least) to support Ron Paul’s bid for the US Presidency. He’s screwing his tongue so hard into his cheek it must be bleeding, but despite the obvious it’s JustAJokeDon’tYouHaveASenseOfHumour approach his contempt for women (and for just about everyone actually) shines through clearly. He’s not joking at all, he just wants to use that as an excuse to preempt criticism of his behaviour.

A lot of the internet blogging on Sears/Dimitri is all about having a laugh at his expense. The problem is that the joke gets old very quickly when one looks deeper into his personal history, which is such a PR nightmare that it’s another reason that any film/TV projects starring Sears/Dimitri are unlikely to get a green light. This man is not a joke, he’s a liability to anyone associated with him.

He’s an ex-medical practitioner struck off the register for sexually assaulting patients in 1992, after which his wife divorced him. There are negative psychiatric evaluations on record from both his medical School and the Canadian Armed Forces, and he was disciplined for repeatedly attempting to force entry into a female officer’s room, after which the military police found a stockpile of weapons in his room. He had to repeat a year of medical school, and when he finally graduated he then came up on report during his internship:

During his internship at Doctors Hospital in Toronto, Sears skipped duties, drank while on call, indulged in “inappropriate self-use of prescription drugs,” according to the College hearing record.

Sears was judged “immature” in a subsequent psychiatric assessment and it was noted he displayed “inappropriate behaviour towards female staff members,” and was viewed by peers as “un -trustworthy, cynical and narcissistic.”

He underwent psychotherapy and was admitted to Ottawa’s National Defence Medical Centre in 1990 for evaluation and treatment.

There, “record was made of numerous, random and obsessive telephone calls to women during which he would sometimes masturbate,” and evidence suggested “prescribable substance abuse,” according to the College hearing records.

However, after a conclusion of “no clear evidence of major psychiatric illness,” Sears was cleared to return to medical practice.

He apparently found military medicine boring, “which led to compulsive masturbation up to six times per day, which was accomplished by going off to the washroom in between patients,” the records state.

Psychotherapy and pharmaceutical treatment was recommended, and Sears was transferred to Toronto to receive treatment at the Clarke Institute, but no grounds were seen to prevent him from continuing to work as a doctor.

James Sears’ medical career began to fall apart in 1991, when the College of Physicians and Surgeons suspended his licence following complaints from female patients.

By late 1992, Sears would plead guilty to two counts of sexual assault and he would be stripped of his medical licence for sexual impropriety.

In court documents from his sentencing, Justice Hugh Locke stated Sears made unwanted “verbal sexual overtures” toward his patients and “sexually assaulted them by attempting to kiss and to embrace them,” while on house calls.

“That unacceptable type of conduct was obviously terrifying to his victims,” Justice Locke wrote.

It would be an error to categorise Sears/Dimitri as being in any way stupid – two years after losing his medical license he appealed the charges of sexual assault, defended himself in court and was acquitted. The other matters in his record meant that his medical license has not been restored, however his success was enough for him to found the Second Opinion Medical-Legal Consultants Group Inc. in 1994, which investigates (supposedly using forensic medical techniqes) malpractice, sexual harassment and wrongfully accused cases. In an unflattering light this endeavour looks awfully like an effective way to get back at other doctors for kicking him out of the profession:

Medical Investigation was unheard of in Canada when DR. JAMES N. SEARS came on the scene back in 1994. Since then he has changed the way in which insurers approach medical fraud and the way in which lawyers approach medical malpractice. He has developed unique and highly effective medical investigative techniques which to date have not been duplicated by any other consulting company in the world! These facts combined with his greater than 95% success rate within 3 months of being retained on a fraud file make DR. JAMES N. SEARS the top Medical Investigator in North America.

His contributions to the fight against medical insurance fraud and his relentless efforts to ensure that all patients harmed by incompetent doctors are given the opportunity to have their voices heard, have also turned him into a very controversial figure. Because of his critical articles and outspoken commentaries, DR. JAMES N. SEARS is considered “public enemy #1” by many provincial governments, rehabilitation facilities, health practitioners, ambulance chasers, and special interest group-infested professional licensing bodies.

Hm. If his medical license has not been restored, should he still be calling himself “Dr”? His medical degree would be a Bachelor’s degree in Surgery and Medicine, so he has no academic right to be called Dr, that right is only conferred by the medical license, which he no longer has. But he wouldn’t sound nearly so impressive without it, would he?

Apparently Sears blames feminism for the fact that he was ever charged with sexual assault in the first place (he told a reporter that he should have “maybe gotten a slap on the wrist”), which explains the feminist-baiting in the animations on his website. So it’s jarring but not entirely surprising to read one of his pearls of wisdom on the page about investigating Criminal Charges and Sexual Harassment?

VAGINAL WALL TEARING DOES NOT NECESSARILY IMPLY RAPE !!!

That statement certainly gives a new perspective to his claims of being “great in bed”. I wonder is he’s totally honest with his “sluts” about the fact that they may be physically damaged by having sex with him.

The rest of that page is a date rapist’s dream defence. Unsurprisingly, he has a reality TV show about the medical investigation string to his bow “in development” as well.

It’s hard to disagree with his hospital co-workers’ assessment of him as “untrustworthy, cynical and narcissistic”, isn’t it? I’m also compelled to wonder why “the top Medical Investigator in North America” now claims to make most of his “great money” working for a mortgage company instead?

I shudder to think that there are other men out there who are taking advice from this man on how to relate to women. He’s not just a harmless performance artist sticking it to the feminists while getting laid all over Toronto. This man is far more sinister than that, and should be shunned by all right-thinking people. Men wanting advice about how to be more confident interacting with women would be much better off taking Chris’s advice instead:

So in conclusion: If you’re bad with women then you gotta get this part of your life handled, or you’ll never be totally happy. Some aspects of the Seduction Community might be of use to you in that regard. I don’t unconditionally hate the Community, just the many things this article pointed out. I wouldn’t be with my girlfriend without it, and I’ve met some great people during my time there. I just think you gotta keep yourself down to earth if you get into this scene. Stay the same person you always were, just be better socially and romantically. Don’t lose your life to some weird subculture in the process and end up hurting your cause.

Also, as I say in some other articles on this site, many guys can make more progress towards doing better with women by improving their basic social skills and personality, and overcoming the anxieties that prevent them from trying to meet women. Trying to become a player without this foundation of attractiveness can just sidetrack them, because they’re not addressing their core problems.

Feminists don’t have a problem with people having plenty of enjoyable sex. Guys who lack confidence in this regard should definitely work on growing their confidence and finding someone who enjoys having sex with them. Make love not war, as the saying goes – the more people happily bonking their brains out the better, so long as measures are taken to avoid contributing to the over-population problem.

Feminists do however have a problem with women being treated badly by guys pursuing sex as some sort of game – sex may not demean women, but being treated as a point on a scoreboard is demeaning because it’s dehumanising. Try the radical notion that women are people, fellas.

Information regarding Dimitri The Lover sourced from jezebel.com, Eye Weekly and the Torontoist unless otherwise indicated.



Categories: gender & feminism, relationships

Tags: , , ,

32 replies

  1. Wow, that was certainly an intense read. Hearing about this guy makes me want to take a shower.
    I have to say though that the tactics he uses in that phone message are tactics I’ve seen used by guys who aren’t part of any sort of seduction community. Suggesting that women aren’t “mature enough” to handle it, or that they’re just playing games is definitely something I’ve seen before– an attempt, I think, for the man to assert himself as an “authority”– he’s the one who sets the benchmark, and it’s a way of telling women that they must define themselves in relation to his perception of the world– as you say, dehumanising.

  2. I have to say though that the tactics he uses in that phone message are tactics I’ve seen used by guys who aren’t part of any sort of seduction community.

    Maybe they were just Naturals :)
    Seriously, how would you know whether they were or not? The Community has been this underground online phenomenon for ages before someone wrote a book about it and it thus became better known.

  3. True, one can never know– maybe the men I’ve seen this from had participated in these communities. I’d also suggest, however, that these communities probably manage to articulately describe the processes that many men use subconsciously anyway.
    Mind you, in the worst case that I know of (didn’t happen to me, but to a close friend), the parallels are so eerily similar that I really have to wonder now…

  4. Great post, thanks for putting it all together. This guy really wears his homosexual panic and his religious/mummy issues on his sleeve, doesn’t he?

  5. I’d also suggest, however, that these communities probably manage to articulately describe the processes that many men use subconsciously anyway.

    I’m sure that’s true. It’s worth noting, thought, than other than the negs about her being timid/having the courage to ring, a lot of the other stuff he said in that first message is NOT typical PUA techniques. I’m sure a lot of those who would consider themselves Players would judge much of what Dimitri said to be typical AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) loser-talk, trying too hard to qualify himself to her and impress her instead of “intriguing” her by acting much more casual about whether they hook up or not (he tries to do that, but he rambles on and ruins the initial impression he tries to implant).
    So yes, in one way he’s showing that he does reject some of the standard PUA methods because he’s not applying them in the approved manner, but he’s certainly not doing the whole “totally honest” thing he claims is the source of his sexual success, and he’s still falling back on old PUA habits as he gets flustered.

  6. This guy really wears his homosexual panic and his religious/mummy issues on his sleeve, doesn’t he?

    I think he gets off on being the daring maverick, target of the politically correct and nemesis of the METROSEXUAL FEMINIST MEDIA CONSPIRACY!!1!
    He likes to think that he’s threatening the entire fabric of society instead of merely being horribly disturbing on a personal level.
    The guy’s history just screams Stalker (and worse).

  7. Wow. Have to say I’m not fond of marathon rants on answering machines at anytime, but those messages, espcially the second, would put me in fear.
    The references to cancer, anxiety and psychological disorders plus the deadline to call(!) seem implicitly threatening. Sounds like he’s more interested in intimidation than seduction.

  8. The so-called seduction community – especially on the discussion boards and the like – presents many of the classic features of the male homosocial use of woman as mediating object for male interaction and bonding. That, I believe, is why the inverse of the process is to decry or denigrate those who find a girlfriend or partner. That and the mysteries of intimacy seem to remain closed to these kinds of approaches.
    Some of the low-level techniques for facilitating social interaction seem sensible, but the edifice in which they are embedded is so utterly repellent, even in the mainstream versions. But then, my earnest AFC agreeableness hasn’t exactly let me down. I enjoy a fulfilling partnership and several close friendships with women. I suppose I would be more drawn to the discussion of seduction techniques if I weren’t so comfortable in heterosocial contexts, or for that matter happily partnered. I just wish for the sake of those lonely, decent men who do get wrapped up in these things that they could find a better way to gain confidence and find female companionship.

  9. Yes, I was going to comment on the whole homosocial exchange element here. The whole business has almost nothing to do with women at all, does it? It’s all about your relationships with other men. Sad, since actually liking women has always seemed to me to provide a big advantage in seducing them, and I don’t see that in any aspect of this phenomenon.
    Jon Birmingham’s “How to be a Man” would be a much healthier textbook for the inexperienced but genuine men you describe.

  10. Wow.
    Okay, maybe this is just the Canadian in me, but someone with a stockpile of weapons blaming his problems in life on Feminists? Shades of Marc Lepine & the Montreal Massacre. To me, that’s just bloody frightening.

  11. Wow. Thanks for going the distance with this one, Tigs. Had read about this guy and the PUA ‘community’ before, but not so comprehensively.
    I guess my own inclination has leaned toward dismissiveness of the scene, but reading Chris/Lonely Guy’s post in the context of yours shone a light on the larger cult dynamics of this phenom., which I hadn’t really thought about before.
    As orlando says, it’s a self-evidently homosocial focus, but what I was consciously struck by is how most cults function this way in a patriarchal context, and rely on the presence of women as target in order to function (whether in dysfunctional religious, PUA, martial arts, whatever contexts gone awry).
    Much interesting food for thought here, on a lot of levels.
    This Dimitri guy is a perp, obviously, and a deeply creepy one since he’s got a platform – but you know, narcissist perps always find one, it’s their rush. I hope he gets taken down.
    Noted with grim lack of surprise, too, the failure of the medical and legal systems to deal with him promptly and keep him dealt with. Glad he’s not allowed to see patients anymore, but how many did he reach first?

  12. Oh, and the seductionbase glossary. Speechless.

  13. I find the whole idea of a seduction (PUA) “community” hilarious. Maybe the word “community” is becoming a bit debased.

  14. Would any man take that poster seriously? It says ‘I am a misogynistic shonkster out to part the fool and his money’
    Rayedishs last blog post..“Excuse me Miss, but are you a ‘real’ woman?”…

  15. That’s only what it seems to say to well-adjusted men, Rayedish.
    Methinks Dimitri is trolling for the guys that the mainstream Lairs have started to eye askance because of their extreme misogyny. They can see Dimitri’s poster and know that they will fit right in – and look, none of those metrosexuals who make them feel ashamed in the other Lairs will be even allowed to enter because they all look so gay.

  16. Yes I totally agree with your assessment there, Tigtog. Much as I wish that everybody would see the ‘money making scam’ subtext that screams out at us, unfortunately Sears has probably picked his target market well. This guy’s history is really scary, and the thought of him teaching other guys his ‘skills’ is something that I find quite disturbing.

  17. FFS, (re “the second opinion” website), who builds websites like this any more? It looks like something from 1995. As a manly-man, isn’t he supposed to be “hard-wired” to be good at this sort of thing? and doesn’t he depend on, like, impressions to get more money? All I can say is that his marks must be pretty low on the food chain – and with the US economy going the way it is, he’ll soon be out of suckers. Eech.

  18. Helen, my thoughts exactly. He started that business in 1994, and it looks like he hasn’t updated the website design since. Cheesy animations and no CSS by the looks – my bet’s on an ancient version of Frontpage, whaddyareckon?

  19. “I shudder to think that there are other men out there who are taking advice from this man on how to relate to women.”
    It’s true, they’re out there… in fact, I was raped about a year ago by a guy whose behavior was remarkably similar to this Dimitri fellow… I had no idea that type of behavior was even trendy.

  20. Rachel, how horrible for you. Dimitri and his ilk’s teachings seem basically a guaranteed recipe for producing a sense of entitlement amongst his followers that would inevitably result in some of them rationalising date-rape in situations where they feel they can get away with it.

  21. Rancho Relaxo, heh heh. I couldn’t help smiling, especially since it’s located on the 2nd floor–not much of a rancho, eh? Does Christopher Walken as “The Continental” meet you at the door with a glass of “champagna”?
    I immediately started wondering what kind of mental images “Rancho Relaxo” was actually supposed to convey to the reader, and then for fun I started thinking about what an ideal “Rancho Relaxo” might mean to the average feminist blog reader. (Hint: I’ll bet it doesn’t include any PUAs.)

  22. I’m not sure I took anything in after reading that lesbian and bisexual women would be accorded ‘honorary heterosexual male’ status, because that’s totally what queer women are looking for.
    Obviously I will be alerting my queer women friends in Canada so they can seek him out for tips. (Or maybe he’d faint in the presence of people who treat women like people and conduct actual adult relationships with real live honesty)

  23. Deeply unhinged person. MY GOD. Really, to be *that* unhinged and yet still able to function to some degree (and so pass for a time, at least) as stable is a pretty dangerous combination.
    I found this post via the Feminist Carnival, and I’m glad I did. This was a fascinating and very satisfying read. Well done!

  24. Whoops, not sure what I did with brackets then. Blame it on a cake buzz, was scoffing a slice of cake at the time of writing that.

  25. GOSH- theres so much stuff i want to say— where do i start??
    Ive been a so-called PUA for 2 and a bit years now. Im also a psych (clinical) student. Ive read ALOT of PUA and other older attraction material. If anyone wants to know more – go back and read the last post i wrote re: the PUA community.
    I have to say firstly that PUA material (as well as other books and guides) have really helped me to change my social life and my success with women.
    Anyhoo – i went through this post agreeing with some of Tigtogs contentions and disagreeing with others.
    I think a big thing in the PUA community is confronting fears. That means challenging fears of chatting to girls, or asking for phone numbers, or whatever. So when you get a girlfriend – some guys think that you’re no longer pushing yourself, that youre no longer doing that which you are afraid to do – that you’re almost saying “I’ve made it, i have complete choice in who i date.”
    I dont agree with this equation – because i think all guys need to experience relationships as well – in order to grow – but i can understand the rationale behind it.
    Im not sure where or how or why the PUA stuff came about. One of the ideas i had was based around the many very necessary changes to social structure and dynamics that have come about thru the Feminist movement. And i suppose i could add to that guys not having Dad around and guys not having social skills taught to them by their role models as children. PUA stuff is not a replacement for good parenting or anything like that. But it has helped me.
    Does that make the PUA community a great place for guys to go to that dont understand themselves? Not necessarily. But what else do most guys know? Young guys think they want 24/7 sex because thats what the hormones are telling them. So they go to the guy that says he can guarantee they get it.
    As for Sears? He sounds mentally unwell. And its sad that he will go around teaching guys methods that will only make them more unhappy and less comfortable with their own sexuality. Its also sad that he teaches men to think of women as ‘desperate sluts’.
    There are good guys that teach good stuff to attract women (Sam de Brito recently published one such book), and there are bad guys that teach bad stuff.
    Its business and as Tigtog said – people are making ALOT of money..
    anyhoo.. im tired.. bedtime..
    peace and love

  26. ”I’ve made it, i have complete choice in who i date.”

    Why couldn’t they be saying “I think I’ve found someone that I want to spend a lot more time with, maybe even the rest of my life, because she is fabulous?

  27. Erm, I don’t think many dads teach boys “dating” skillz. At least not in this country.

  28. In response:
    Mindy – i really hope that i find that fabulous girl that i want to spend the rest of my life with. Unfortunately to do that you have to have the confidence to get out there and talk to alot of women — the ones that do peak your interest – whether they are beautiful or funny or artistic and funky or whatever. That is true confidence – being able to CHOOSE who you approach and when and then believing that you can make the experience enjoyable for her.
    There are alot of guys that do want girlfriends that study dating and attraction and there are guys that only realise they want one once they’ve been through that shallow pick-up phase.
    Oh and to purple people eater – i didnt say that dads should teach their kids dating skills.
    Its more important that dads teach their kids by doing rather than saying. So they BE social individuals themselves that teach their kids the value and joy of friendships and relationships and how to maintain them, they BE confident individuals that are good at being assertive, while at the same time BEING kind. Such things lead the kids into having normal, socially well adjusted and naturally attractive lives. This is not the background of most PUA’s. So they have to un-learn and then re-learn how do all this stuff.
    Peace and love

  29. Frank, it’s better that they unlearn and then relearn by hanging out with fun, intelligent guys with a sense of humour and some emotional intelligence. Becoming a PUA by learning a set of rules seems such a joyless exercise, seems like the male equivalent of a girl who tries to follow “the rules” (as exemplified by “The Rules”, the Book).

  30. To weight in on discussion. I have been a dating coach for past 4 years, started without community approaching. I had a lot of fears to conquer, i was getting better at approaching but was getting stuck. then at some point found community, and right away it made a huge difference. I dont mean lines and such, but the ability to see why we interact in certain way.
    As someone have already mentioned, community has a good and bad site, sadly at the moment it mostly bad due to real luck of good role models, since as it was mentioned, only sex sells well. My own belief always was that it is natural for a man and woman to enjoy and have fun, and sex is just part of it. But guys like dimitri the lover, ross jeffries, RSD and list goes on, makes community a very unpleasant place. and it wont change, since stuff that i fun “natural…fun…” doesn’t sell, sex sells and thats why pua here to stay.

  31. My own belief always was that it is natural for a man and woman to enjoy and have fun, and sex is just part of it.

    Exactly, Dan. That’s what PUA for profit distorts.

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