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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Just because you can see it, doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s yours.&#8221;: the political misappropriation of personal pain</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/</link>
	<description>That's *MS* Hoyden to you</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:10:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-23170</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-23170</guid>
		<description>*Dips hat*

&lt;em&gt;Helen&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=478&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;?They?ve had three months of grieving and sulking and carrying on. It?s about time they started behaving like a proper opposition.?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*Dips hat*</p>
<p><em>Helen&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=478' rel="nofollow">?They?ve had three months of grieving and sulking and carrying on. It?s about time they started behaving like a proper opposition.?</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-23150</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-23150</guid>
		<description>Hi in media res. 

&quot;Brave&quot; seems such a trite word to use here, but you really are, and I dip my hat to you. Eden and her crowd are nasty, contemptible, evil people, and what they did to you was profoundly immoral.

You&#039;re among friends here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi in media res. </p>
<p>&#8220;Brave&#8221; seems such a trite word to use here, but you really are, and I dip my hat to you. Eden and her crowd are nasty, contemptible, evil people, and what they did to you was profoundly immoral.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re among friends here.</p>
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		<title>By: In medias res</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-23144</link>
		<dc:creator>In medias res</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-23144</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing this. What Dawn did to me and does to other people is disgusting, and I agree that it is colonizing my experience. I&#039;ve asked for her post to be taken down, or for there to be some sort of follow-up that would provide a more complete picture of my life in context. Ha...of course that hasn&#039;t happened. She knew exactly what she was doing, and never once rebuked any of her followers for the horrible things they said. From comments there and elsewhere, it was pretty clear to me that a number of them hoped I would suffer, never recover, and ideally die a horrible and gross death so they&#039;d have a good story. Like I said, she knew what she was doing.

Anyway, thanks again. When I look at my Wordpress stats, most of the incoming links are from hate sites. It&#039;s kinda strange to be comforted by the ones that aren&#039;t, but there it is. I am.

&lt;em&gt;In medias res&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/InMediasResABlogInTheMiddleOfThings/~3/241070481/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A primer on writing about abortion experiences&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing this. What Dawn did to me and does to other people is disgusting, and I agree that it is colonizing my experience. I&#8217;ve asked for her post to be taken down, or for there to be some sort of follow-up that would provide a more complete picture of my life in context. Ha&#8230;of course that hasn&#8217;t happened. She knew exactly what she was doing, and never once rebuked any of her followers for the horrible things they said. From comments there and elsewhere, it was pretty clear to me that a number of them hoped I would suffer, never recover, and ideally die a horrible and gross death so they&#8217;d have a good story. Like I said, she knew what she was doing.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks again. When I look at my Wordpress stats, most of the incoming links are from hate sites. It&#8217;s kinda strange to be comforted by the ones that aren&#8217;t, but there it is. I am.</p>
<p><em>In medias res&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/InMediasResABlogInTheMiddleOfThings/~3/241070481/' rel="nofollow">A primer on writing about abortion experiences</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: blue milk</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-22856</link>
		<dc:creator>blue milk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-22856</guid>
		<description>Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for writing about this, and for writing about it so well. This issue bothers me greatly, particularly as he is at it again (sigh) http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2008/02/liberalism-power.html and because I know that women participating in my &quot;10 questions&quot; did so with much honesty and they, like me were picturing an audience made up of the kinds of respectful readers who comment on my site. I feel I&#039;ve let them down in a way by not being able to protect them better. 

However, their responses to the 10 questions have been extremely popular in terms of hits on the posts and given that oz conservative&#039;s negative response is the only one of its kind that I&#039;m aware of I can feel some comfort knowing that a lot of other people out there must have found these women&#039;s stories very helpful, as was intended.

Also, I found it quite distressing to see Lyman&#039;s personal account misused like that by Nelson, thinking of the deep embarrassment and exposure she must have experienced on what should have been such a positive day for her was awful.

This is a very good topic to post on, thanks Lauredhel.

&lt;em&gt;blue milk&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/mothers-and-daughters/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mothers and daughters - a poetry, writing, photography competition&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for writing about this, and for writing about it so well. This issue bothers me greatly, particularly as he is at it again (sigh) <a href="http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2008/02/liberalism-power.html" rel="nofollow">http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2008/02/liberalism-power.html</a> and because I know that women participating in my &#8220;10 questions&#8221; did so with much honesty and they, like me were picturing an audience made up of the kinds of respectful readers who comment on my site. I feel I&#8217;ve let them down in a way by not being able to protect them better. </p>
<p>However, their responses to the 10 questions have been extremely popular in terms of hits on the posts and given that oz conservative&#8217;s negative response is the only one of its kind that I&#8217;m aware of I can feel some comfort knowing that a lot of other people out there must have found these women&#8217;s stories very helpful, as was intended.</p>
<p>Also, I found it quite distressing to see Lyman&#8217;s personal account misused like that by Nelson, thinking of the deep embarrassment and exposure she must have experienced on what should have been such a positive day for her was awful.</p>
<p>This is a very good topic to post on, thanks Lauredhel.</p>
<p><em>blue milk&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/mothers-and-daughters/' rel="nofollow">Mothers and daughters &#8211; a poetry, writing, photography competition</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-22855</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-22855</guid>
		<description>Good point Beppie, and well said.

&lt;em&gt;Lauredhel&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;?Just because you can see it, doesn?t mean it?s yours.?: the political misappropriation of personal pain&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point Beppie, and well said.</p>
<p><em>Lauredhel&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472' rel="nofollow">?Just because you can see it, doesn?t mean it?s yours.?: the political misappropriation of personal pain</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Beppie</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-22851</link>
		<dc:creator>Beppie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-22851</guid>
		<description>Re: semiotic theory-- I think the whole reason that the &quot;death of the author&quot; doesn&#039;t work in these situations is that people who misappropriate personal narratives are making assumptions about authorial intent anyway-- they are trying to say that they recognise the intent of the author better than the author herself-- so they aren&#039;t killing the author, they&#039;re kidnapping her, and trying to force her authorial voice to say something that she doesn&#039;t want to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: semiotic theory&#8211; I think the whole reason that the &#8220;death of the author&#8221; doesn&#8217;t work in these situations is that people who misappropriate personal narratives are making assumptions about authorial intent anyway&#8211; they are trying to say that they recognise the intent of the author better than the author herself&#8211; so they aren&#8217;t killing the author, they&#8217;re kidnapping her, and trying to force her authorial voice to say something that she doesn&#8217;t want to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-22846</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-22846</guid>
		<description>Meg, thanks for your comment. I think it is worth reading those aspects of semiotic theory with a deeply critical eye - it&#039;s all too easy for some contemporary theorists push aside power, inequality, and conflicts in favour of a sort of abstract, jargon-riddled feelgoodism.

I don&#039;t think that people should never look at and discuss other people&#039;s stories, at all - but I do think that they need to keep in mind the power dynamics, and consider intent and good faith.

&lt;em&gt;Lauredhel&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;?Just because you can see it, doesn?t mean it?s yours.?: the political misappropriation of personal pain&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meg, thanks for your comment. I think it is worth reading those aspects of semiotic theory with a deeply critical eye &#8211; it&#8217;s all too easy for some contemporary theorists push aside power, inequality, and conflicts in favour of a sort of abstract, jargon-riddled feelgoodism.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that people should never look at and discuss other people&#8217;s stories, at all &#8211; but I do think that they need to keep in mind the power dynamics, and consider intent and good faith.</p>
<p><em>Lauredhel&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472' rel="nofollow">?Just because you can see it, doesn?t mean it?s yours.?: the political misappropriation of personal pain</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-22845</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-22845</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This is a highly personalised response to a political argument. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Bullshit, Mark. Read my post again. This is a response to a very, very, very personal argument. You took the personal stories of a group of women and used it against them and all they hold dear. 

What it is not is a personal response to _you_. It says absolutely nothing about your personal life or your personal story. It is a response to your political posturing, the beliefs you attempt to foist onto others, and your exploitation of women&#039;s experience to try to score points against them, and against feminism.

&lt;blockquote&gt; It’s not easy for a man to understand how you interpret this situation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And yet, many feminist men seem to manage just fine - because they try, and because they listen to women, they believe them, and respect their beliefs. 

Don&#039;t you dare for a second try to play the victim here. And for future reference, please read our comment guidelines and civility policy, and bear in mind that I will not host any sexist speech. By my definition, not yours.

At least Nelson had the good sense to apologise when he was called on it.

&lt;em&gt;Lauredhel&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;?Just because you can see it, doesn?t mean it?s yours.?: the political misappropriation of personal pain&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This is a highly personalised response to a political argument. </p></blockquote>
<p>Bullshit, Mark. Read my post again. This is a response to a very, very, very personal argument. You took the personal stories of a group of women and used it against them and all they hold dear. </p>
<p>What it is not is a personal response to _you_. It says absolutely nothing about your personal life or your personal story. It is a response to your political posturing, the beliefs you attempt to foist onto others, and your exploitation of women&#8217;s experience to try to score points against them, and against feminism.</p>
<blockquote><p> It’s not easy for a man to understand how you interpret this situation.</p></blockquote>
<p>And yet, many feminist men seem to manage just fine &#8211; because they try, and because they listen to women, they believe them, and respect their beliefs. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you dare for a second try to play the victim here. And for future reference, please read our comment guidelines and civility policy, and bear in mind that I will not host any sexist speech. By my definition, not yours.</p>
<p>At least Nelson had the good sense to apologise when he was called on it.</p>
<p><em>Lauredhel&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472' rel="nofollow">?Just because you can see it, doesn?t mean it?s yours.?: the political misappropriation of personal pain</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Richardson</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-22842</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-22842</guid>
		<description>Lauredhel, I read through my article again and wished only that I had made the political argument clearer. There is no mockery in it. There is no scorn. It is, in fact, more respectful of the women and their stories than you are of me.

It&#039;s not easy for a man to understand how you interpret this situation. I wrote a piece of analysis based on some stories by feminist mothers. You take this to be an attempt to silence you, to colonise you, to mock you, to take advantage of you.

This is a highly personalised response to a political argument. Why not instead just say why you think my argument was wrong?

&lt;em&gt;Mark Richardson&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2008/02/liberalism-power.html&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Liberalism &amp; power&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lauredhel, I read through my article again and wished only that I had made the political argument clearer. There is no mockery in it. There is no scorn. It is, in fact, more respectful of the women and their stories than you are of me.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not easy for a man to understand how you interpret this situation. I wrote a piece of analysis based on some stories by feminist mothers. You take this to be an attempt to silence you, to colonise you, to mock you, to take advantage of you.</p>
<p>This is a highly personalised response to a political argument. Why not instead just say why you think my argument was wrong?</p>
<p><em>Mark Richardson&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2008/02/liberalism-power.html' rel="nofollow">Liberalism &amp; power</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Meg Thornton</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080221.1472/just-because-you-can-see-it-doesnt-mean-its-yours-the-political-misappropriation-of-personal-pain/comment-page-1/#comment-22826</link>
		<dc:creator>Meg Thornton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1472#comment-22826</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing this.  I&#039;ve had to think about this matter fairly seriously myself, as someone who is mentally ill (chronic depression) and who admits as much in public and without shame.  I&#039;m one of the lucky ones - I&#039;ve never been institutionalised, I respond well to medication, and I was lucky enough to have a sympathetic and receptive medical practicioner to &quot;come out&quot; to.  Over my term of blogging, first on LiveJournal and now on InsaneJournal, I&#039;ve published a few pieces about what it actually feels like to be depressed, and what it&#039;s like to live with a mental illness.  I&#039;ve received sympathetic comments back from friends and acquaintances as a result of these.  But part of me can&#039;t help but wonder whether someone else somewhere has been making negative use of them, using them as a way of saying &quot;thou shalt not&quot; to someone else, or of stereotyping all mentally ill persons.  

I write my occasional pieces on &quot;this is what it&#039;s like in here&quot; because I want to help other people understand.  I want them to be able to think of mental illness as something which isn&#039;t scary; I want them to understand that even though I do occasionally have days where the first answer to any question in my mind is &quot;why not kill yourself?&quot; I&#039;m still interested in living.  I don&#039;t write them so some nitwit can turn around and say &quot;this is crazy talk, she should be locked up&quot;.  I don&#039;t write them so people can turn around and tell someone who is in mental distress that they can&#039;t be &quot;properly&quot; mentally ill because they don&#039;t feel like I feel.  

I know semiotic theory says the intentions of the writer don&#039;t override the constructions of the reader, but I do tend to believe that the intentions of the writer count for something.  If the aim is to share information, then the information shared belongs to the people who are sharing it, and it&#039;s only polite to ask their permission before appropriating it to suit your own purposes.

&lt;em&gt;Meg Thornton&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://megpie71.insanejournal.com/12368.html&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fic: Why&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing this.  I&#8217;ve had to think about this matter fairly seriously myself, as someone who is mentally ill (chronic depression) and who admits as much in public and without shame.  I&#8217;m one of the lucky ones &#8211; I&#8217;ve never been institutionalised, I respond well to medication, and I was lucky enough to have a sympathetic and receptive medical practicioner to &#8220;come out&#8221; to.  Over my term of blogging, first on LiveJournal and now on InsaneJournal, I&#8217;ve published a few pieces about what it actually feels like to be depressed, and what it&#8217;s like to live with a mental illness.  I&#8217;ve received sympathetic comments back from friends and acquaintances as a result of these.  But part of me can&#8217;t help but wonder whether someone else somewhere has been making negative use of them, using them as a way of saying &#8220;thou shalt not&#8221; to someone else, or of stereotyping all mentally ill persons.  </p>
<p>I write my occasional pieces on &#8220;this is what it&#8217;s like in here&#8221; because I want to help other people understand.  I want them to be able to think of mental illness as something which isn&#8217;t scary; I want them to understand that even though I do occasionally have days where the first answer to any question in my mind is &#8220;why not kill yourself?&#8221; I&#8217;m still interested in living.  I don&#8217;t write them so some nitwit can turn around and say &#8220;this is crazy talk, she should be locked up&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t write them so people can turn around and tell someone who is in mental distress that they can&#8217;t be &#8220;properly&#8221; mentally ill because they don&#8217;t feel like I feel.  </p>
<p>I know semiotic theory says the intentions of the writer don&#8217;t override the constructions of the reader, but I do tend to believe that the intentions of the writer count for something.  If the aim is to share information, then the information shared belongs to the people who are sharing it, and it&#8217;s only polite to ask their permission before appropriating it to suit your own purposes.</p>
<p><em>Meg Thornton&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://megpie71.insanejournal.com/12368.html' rel="nofollow">Fic: Why</a></em></p>
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