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	<title>Comments on: Rudd govt anti-same-sex-discrimination bill depends on the Senate balance of power</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/</link>
	<description>"We are the women that men have warned us about." - Robin Morgan</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:29:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28590</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 08:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28590</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If the birth is attended by a Person of Substance, the paperwork all goes through without a hitch. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

That was always the idea behind Royal births taking place in a room full of titled nobility.  The birth had to be witnessed as definitely issuing from the Queen&#039;s loins, otherwise who knew what rudely healthy peasant changeling might be foisted upon the throne?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If the birth is attended by a Person of Substance, the paperwork all goes through without a hitch. </p></blockquote>
<p>That was always the idea behind Royal births taking place in a room full of titled nobility.  The birth had to be witnessed as definitely issuing from the Queen&#8217;s loins, otherwise who knew what rudely healthy peasant changeling might be foisted upon the throne?</p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28587</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 08:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28587</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;After all, we did the same with registering our offspring years ago - nobody confuses the act of registering a birth with a christening or other naming ritual - they’re two entirely separate aspects of welcoming a new life into the family.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hey, that&#039;s an interesting comparison (and one I hadn&#039;t seen drawn before). The ritual of a birth being attended by a registered doctor or midwife does have some impact on the birth registration. If the birth is attended by a Person of Substance, the paperwork all goes through without a hitch. 

If a woman has an unattended homebirth, however, she does have to jump through some hoops, including a statutory declaration (&quot;Yes, Government, I really did see this baby come out of my vagina!&quot;) and a certificate from a doctor.

&lt;div style=&quot;border:1px solid; display:block; padding:4px;&quot;&gt;Lauredhels last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1673&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BADD: The radical notion that people with disabilities are people, and Australia’s 2020 Summit&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>After all, we did the same with registering our offspring years ago &#8211; nobody confuses the act of registering a birth with a christening or other naming ritual &#8211; they’re two entirely separate aspects of welcoming a new life into the family.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hey, that&#8217;s an interesting comparison (and one I hadn&#8217;t seen drawn before). The ritual of a birth being attended by a registered doctor or midwife does have some impact on the birth registration. If the birth is attended by a Person of Substance, the paperwork all goes through without a hitch. </p>
<p>If a woman has an unattended homebirth, however, she does have to jump through some hoops, including a statutory declaration (&#8220;Yes, Government, I really did see this baby come out of my vagina!&#8221;) and a certificate from a doctor.</p>
<div style="border:1px solid; display:block; padding:4px;">Lauredhels last blog post..<a href="http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1673" rel="nofollow">BADD: The radical notion that people with disabilities are people, and Australia’s 2020 Summit</a></div>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28573</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 06:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28573</guid>
		<description>I think civil unions/partner registrations for everybody is the most ethical and practical way to go as well - get rid of &quot;married&quot; as a legally recognised status entirely, leaving it as a religious tradition.  Then those who have a religious view of marriage can have their partnerships blessed in church/temple/mosque, and the rest of us who want to celebrate a pair-bond commitment can have the bunfights of our choice.  

After all, we did the same with registering our offspring years ago - nobody confuses the act of registering a birth with a christening or other naming ritual - they&#039;re two entirely separate aspects of welcoming a new life into the family.  Everybody would become accustomed to a similar approach to formally recognising pair-bonds in quite short order: the bureaucratic requirements of registering a pair-bond kept totally separate from community ritual traditions of blessing and celebrating.

The traditionalists won&#039;t like it though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think civil unions/partner registrations for everybody is the most ethical and practical way to go as well &#8211; get rid of &#8220;married&#8221; as a legally recognised status entirely, leaving it as a religious tradition.  Then those who have a religious view of marriage can have their partnerships blessed in church/temple/mosque, and the rest of us who want to celebrate a pair-bond commitment can have the bunfights of our choice.  </p>
<p>After all, we did the same with registering our offspring years ago &#8211; nobody confuses the act of registering a birth with a christening or other naming ritual &#8211; they&#8217;re two entirely separate aspects of welcoming a new life into the family.  Everybody would become accustomed to a similar approach to formally recognising pair-bonds in quite short order: the bureaucratic requirements of registering a pair-bond kept totally separate from community ritual traditions of blessing and celebrating.</p>
<p>The traditionalists won&#8217;t like it though.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebekka</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28571</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebekka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 06:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28571</guid>
		<description>&quot;a DD would mean more Greens &quot; - why do you say that?

&lt;div style=&quot;border:1px solid; display:block; padding:4px;&quot;&gt;Rebekkas last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://bekk.blogspot.com/2008/04/small-children-are-hilarious-provided.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Small children are hilarious (provided they go away after a little while)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;a DD would mean more Greens &#8221; &#8211; why do you say that?</p>
<div style="border:1px solid; display:block; padding:4px;">Rebekkas last blog post..<a href="http://bekk.blogspot.com/2008/04/small-children-are-hilarious-provided.html" rel="nofollow">Small children are hilarious (provided they go away after a little while)</a></div>
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		<title>By: M-H</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28569</link>
		<dc:creator>M-H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 06:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28569</guid>
		<description>Yesterday some students on campus were trying to get people to sign a petition to add gay marriage to the bill. I told them I wouldn&#039;t sign, but I &lt;strong&gt;would&lt;/strong&gt; sign a petition to get rid of the idea of marriage as a government-backed institution and replace it with civil unions for everyone. Marriage would then be available for those who wished to add some kind of church ceremony to the civilly-unioned selves. They were quite shocked by this idea, I think.

Thanks for making the font bigger in the comments field. Muchus betterus! :)

&lt;div style=&quot;border:1px solid; display:block; padding:4px;&quot;&gt;M-Hs last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://manainkblog.typepad.com/witty_knitter/2008/05/and-another-thi.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;And another thing...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yesterday some students on campus were trying to get people to sign a petition to add gay marriage to the bill. I told them I wouldn&#8217;t sign, but I <strong>would</strong> sign a petition to get rid of the idea of marriage as a government-backed institution and replace it with civil unions for everyone. Marriage would then be available for those who wished to add some kind of church ceremony to the civilly-unioned selves. They were quite shocked by this idea, I think.</p>
<p>Thanks for making the font bigger in the comments field. Muchus betterus! :)</p>
<div style="border:1px solid; display:block; padding:4px;">M-Hs last blog post..<a href="http://manainkblog.typepad.com/witty_knitter/2008/05/and-another-thi.html" rel="nofollow">And another thing&#8230;</a></div>
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		<title>By: Mindy</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28544</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 03:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28544</guid>
		<description>Hopefully this little step will make later steps easier. I can&#039;t help thinking that we will all look back on this and wonder what the fuss was about though. May that time come soon.

&lt;div style=&quot;border:1px solid; display:block; padding:4px;&quot;&gt;Mindys last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://forbattle.blogspot.com/2008/04/vale-one-of-cool-pioneer-nerds.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Vale one of the Cool Pioneer Nerds&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully this little step will make later steps easier. I can&#8217;t help thinking that we will all look back on this and wonder what the fuss was about though. May that time come soon.</p>
<div style="border:1px solid; display:block; padding:4px;">Mindys last blog post..<a href="http://forbattle.blogspot.com/2008/04/vale-one-of-cool-pioneer-nerds.html" rel="nofollow">Vale one of the Cool Pioneer Nerds</a></div>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28538</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28538</guid>
		<description>Useful info &lt;a href=&quot;http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/30/rudd-govt-anti-same-sex-discrimination-bill-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/#comment-462002&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;from jo commenting on my crosspost&lt;/a&gt; at Laughing Rodeo:  &lt;blockquote&gt;In respect of contacting more sympathetic Coalition Senators from your state, check out the list of Liberal Senators who voted for (with their consciences) the 2006 - RU486 Bill, at Andrew Bartlett’s site.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://andrewbartlett.com/blog/?p=130&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;[link]&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Useful info <a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/04/30/rudd-govt-anti-same-sex-discrimination-bill-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/#comment-462002" rel="nofollow">from jo commenting on my crosspost</a> at Laughing Rodeo:<br />
<blockquote>In respect of contacting more sympathetic Coalition Senators from your state, check out the list of Liberal Senators who voted for (with their consciences) the 2006 &#8211; RU486 Bill, at Andrew Bartlett’s site.<br />
<a href="http://andrewbartlett.com/blog/?p=130" rel="nofollow">[link]</a></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28529</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 01:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28529</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m hoping that the limitations of this bill are due to an attempt at the politics of the possible: without a Senate majority the Rudd government cannot pass comprehensive reforming legislation even if it wished to (and I agree, we&#039;re not entirely sure that it does).

The current bill is likely to get broad bipartisan support precisely because it is so limited.  Without broad bipartisan support (making the opposition of Fielding and other socially conservative Senators irrelevant) then no reforms at all will be passed.

With respect to ceremonies, I believe there&#039;s nothing stopping same-sex couples going to a registered celebrant for a commitment ceremony in most if not all Australian states.  Commitment ceremonies do not result in any altered legal status, but at least registered celebrants offer experience in conducting ceremonial events and can help make for a dignified and meaningful occasion of bearing witness to a loving partnership in front of the nearest and dearest.

Here&#039;s the blurb from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nswcelebrantsonline.com.au/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an online register of celebrants&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Only those Celebrants who are &lt;b&gt;Commonwealth-authorised Marriage Celebrants (CMC)&lt;/b&gt; are legally permitted to celebrate marriages within Australia. &lt;b&gt;Commonwealth-authorised Marriage Celebrants&lt;/b&gt; are appointed by the Attorney-General of Australia. Commonwealth-authorised Marriage Celebrants are indicated by the letters &lt;b&gt;&#039;CMC&#039;&lt;/b&gt; following their name in the listings.

&lt;b&gt;Authorised CMCs and General Civil Celebrants may perform Same-sex Commitments, Renewal of Vows, Namings, Funerals and a wide variety of other ceremonies.&lt;/b&gt;

General Celebrants are NOT Commonwealth-authorised and so, ARE NOT legally permitted to celebrate marriages.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m hoping that the limitations of this bill are due to an attempt at the politics of the possible: without a Senate majority the Rudd government cannot pass comprehensive reforming legislation even if it wished to (and I agree, we&#8217;re not entirely sure that it does).</p>
<p>The current bill is likely to get broad bipartisan support precisely because it is so limited.  Without broad bipartisan support (making the opposition of Fielding and other socially conservative Senators irrelevant) then no reforms at all will be passed.</p>
<p>With respect to ceremonies, I believe there&#8217;s nothing stopping same-sex couples going to a registered celebrant for a commitment ceremony in most if not all Australian states.  Commitment ceremonies do not result in any altered legal status, but at least registered celebrants offer experience in conducting ceremonial events and can help make for a dignified and meaningful occasion of bearing witness to a loving partnership in front of the nearest and dearest.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the blurb from <a href="http://www.nswcelebrantsonline.com.au/" rel="nofollow">an online register of celebrants</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Only those Celebrants who are <b>Commonwealth-authorised Marriage Celebrants (CMC)</b> are legally permitted to celebrate marriages within Australia. <b>Commonwealth-authorised Marriage Celebrants</b> are appointed by the Attorney-General of Australia. Commonwealth-authorised Marriage Celebrants are indicated by the letters <b>&#8216;CMC&#8217;</b> following their name in the listings.</p>
<p><b>Authorised CMCs and General Civil Celebrants may perform Same-sex Commitments, Renewal of Vows, Namings, Funerals and a wide variety of other ceremonies.</b></p>
<p>General Celebrants are NOT Commonwealth-authorised and so, ARE NOT legally permitted to celebrate marriages.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: E</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28507</link>
		<dc:creator>E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28507</guid>
		<description>This bill is a good first step, but doesn&#039;t it really entrench discrimination.  Sure, it looks like progress, but what it is doing is drawing a definite line beyond which GLB people cannot cross.  In particular, they are denied marriage, any hint of ceremonies, IVF and adoption from a federal point of view.

Sadly, both the ALP and Coalition are equally as bad as each other in holding onto this core bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This bill is a good first step, but doesn&#8217;t it really entrench discrimination.  Sure, it looks like progress, but what it is doing is drawing a definite line beyond which GLB people cannot cross.  In particular, they are denied marriage, any hint of ceremonies, IVF and adoption from a federal point of view.</p>
<p>Sadly, both the ALP and Coalition are equally as bad as each other in holding onto this core bigotry.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20080430.1667/rudd-govt-bill-to-remove-some-legal-discriminations-against-same-sex-couples-depends-on-the-senate-balance-of-power/comment-page-1/#comment-28486</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1667#comment-28486</guid>
		<description>VSU very much pales into insignificance next to FF&#039;s anti-woman and anti-gay policies.

Lauredhels last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1669&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;“Save Second Base!”: The Reaction responds&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VSU very much pales into insignificance next to FF&#8217;s anti-woman and anti-gay policies.</p>
<p>Lauredhels last blog post..<a href="http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1669" rel="nofollow">“Save Second Base!”: The Reaction responds</a></p>
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