Lauredhel, Yes, that is definitely illustrative of the problem in the public vs private debate. It also seems to me from that study I linked to that there is this ‘doctor knows best’ paternalism. This is neither informative nor empowering for birthing women. At the end of the day what we need is for women to be as informed as possible, and to be making birthing decisions based on the most up to date, reliable and rigorous evidence. The only way many women will be able to access this information is if their GPs and obstetricians act as the professionals they are, and are prepared to view their role in the birthing process as one of partnership with the woman and her partner (where relevant). Sadly, the evidence shows many health professionals do not see themselves in this way.

Sorry for getting back to this thread late, I hope it hasn’t interrupted the conversation.

we were both natural births, though my wife had her collarbone snapped by forceps. Is it good that I no longer hear about forceps? I wonder

I don’t understand how a collarbone can be snapped “by forceps” as such; however, collarbone fractures can certainly occur in births in which the shoulder birth is difficult (often exacerbated by lithotomy or semi-sitting positioning). Also, deliberately snapping the collarbone is one last-resort technique for getting a baby out when it’s stuck by the shoulders, as it’s an injury that heals very rapidly in newborns compared to brain damage.

Many births that would have involved forceps in days gone by are now done either by vacuum extraction or C section. This is somewhat contentious; vacuum cups can cause more trauma to the fetus’s head than forceps, whereas forceps births tend to involve more trauma to the woman’s perineum than vacuums.

“Caesarean rate not a problem: obstetricians”

Australia’s caesarean birth rate is in line with that of other comparable countries and is the result of the rising age of mothers, increased obesity rates and changing ethnic mix rather than poor medical practice, obstetricians say in a aggressive submission to a national review of maternity services.

The 106-page document, from the Royal Australia and New Zealand College Of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, signals an escalation of the specialists’ opposition to an expanded role for midwives in managing births – which the Federal Health Minister, Nicola Roxon, has indicated she views sympathetically. [...]

The obstetricians’ submission is one of more than 900 received by the review, the bulk of them from individual women concerned that their own experience of birth involved excessive medical intervention.[...]

The college defended Australia’s surgical birth rate, saying it was on a par with that of the US and only fractionally higher than Britain. This was to be expected because countries with a higher population density had “the luxury of nearly all hospital births occurring in facilities with the immediate availability of caesarean section”, while Australian doctors in more isolated areas had to pre-empt possible difficulties and transfer women to larger centres for a caesarean. [...]

Gotta love the “only fractionally higher than Britain” – the UK rate was 23% in 2004! (Anyone got more recent figures?)

Gotta love the lines about fat, Asian, and rural women being to blame, too. Awesome.

Please do. This is a crock, and the absolute worst thing a woman can hear when she is looking for some way out of the pain that a medicalised birth imposes. I had other issues going on at the time, but thanks to a wonderful social worker I quickly realised that I was feeling horrible about my birth experience, and I also realised WHY. And then I was able to get past it and deal with all the other crap – but i think reading this book will be great – I loved reading Sheila’s childbirth books in preparation for my birth, I anticipate that this book will be as affirming and validating.

As an aside, a friend of mine also had a horrible birth. At her 6 week GP check the doctor asked her about the birth, and she said “it was horrible and I feel traumatised”. The dr said “hmm”, and moved on to the next question, as if trauma was to be expected.

Imagine saying that in any other circumstance – imagine a doctor fobbing you off if they think you have PTSD after any other form of violence.

Anyway, I won’t ramble on, you’re far more articulate than I am, and I hope to read what you have to say on the issue one day.

Aphie – complain to me any day. It is awful, you do have a right to complain (and so do I), and eventually we will change things for other women. I have to keep believing ;) I think it’s funny that they place all this importance on the life of the child, and so little on the mental health of the mother. There’s a connection here people!

Lara’s last blog post..Books For Timor Leste

Will try to find the actual piece(s) was thinking of.

I have had two bouts of “elective” surgery in the past 7 months. The first was for the birth of my son. As he was breech I was flat out TOLD that I would be having a caesarean by one of the doctors at my local (public) hospital – even before I developed late-term hypertension. I had to ask about having an ECV (external turning) and the doc was clearly taken aback when I did, though he ended up agreeing to try. One of the midwives blithely told me “They” didn’t do breech vaginal births anymore because caesareans were “safer”. Considering that he spent some time in the NICU as a result of swallowing the mucus that a vaginal birth would have forced from his airways, I couldn’t help but wonder who exactly it was “safer” for?

(Lara – I’ve gotten that “no right to complain” too, and it drives me crazy. Women’s bodies and experiences are not lesser than a baby’s. It’s such a classic silencing technique, that says more about the speaker’s discomfort with the topic and lack of empathy and consideration than anything else. I’m sure I’ve read British colonial “what right do they have to complain?!” crap about the people of the Congo, etc.)