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	<title>Comments on: Quick hit: New Centrelink &#8220;equality&#8221; to hit older lesbians the worst</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/</link>
	<description>This *is* my soft, feminine side.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:10:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-119224</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 00:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-119224</guid>
		<description>What so many people do not understand is that to &quot;give equality&quot; to a formerly disadvantaged group, by suddenly making across the board changes does not result in real equality. As shown in some of the blogs here &amp; in many real live stories, lesbians &amp; gay men&#039;s lives have been disadvantaged &amp; many - esp. older -  cannot catch up &amp; be equal in a mere few years. Protections and provisions have to be made to enable outcomes to approach equality. It&#039;s the difference between &quot;formal equality&quot; and &quot;substantive equality&quot;. Not such difficult concepts really. So please avoid the simplistic quip - &quot;now you&#039;re equal with hetero de factos you&#039;ll have to wear it&quot;. Older gays and lesbians didn&#039;t have a level playing field and their lives have not had the legal, social and often personal supports to enable them to benefit from quick fix  &quot;equal treatment&quot; laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What so many people do not understand is that to &#8220;give equality&#8221; to a formerly disadvantaged group, by suddenly making across the board changes does not result in real equality. As shown in some of the blogs here &amp; in many real live stories, lesbians &amp; gay men&#8217;s lives have been disadvantaged &amp; many &#8211; esp. older &#8211;  cannot catch up &amp; be equal in a mere few years. Protections and provisions have to be made to enable outcomes to approach equality. It&#8217;s the difference between &#8220;formal equality&#8221; and &#8220;substantive equality&#8221;. Not such difficult concepts really. So please avoid the simplistic quip &#8211; &#8220;now you&#8217;re equal with hetero de factos you&#8217;ll have to wear it&#8221;. Older gays and lesbians didn&#8217;t have a level playing field and their lives have not had the legal, social and often personal supports to enable them to benefit from quick fix  &#8220;equal treatment&#8221; laws.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-117702</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-117702</guid>
		<description>We held a public forum here in Adelaide and the place was packed, people were all worried, anxious and decidedly uninformed, hardly a surprise given centrelink have yet to properly inform anyone about anything, this when the changes are still slated to kick in July 1 2009.
The speaker from the welfare rights centre was magnificent, Marg Riley.
She have out information in piles, she responded to questions from desperate and worried people and she reassured people that in the midst of this appallingly unfair treatment by government that welfare rights are at least there to provide support and assistance. 
My advice to everyone is to go to welfare rights, google welfare rights network / services and a map of oz comes up, talk with them FIRST about your situation, and get informed, do this BEFORE approaching centrelink or calling their useless waste of taxpayers same sex hotline.
Then TOGETHER as a couple make decisions about what to do.
Do not despair, we are still hounding the govt about this and we will NOT give up, how dare they do this to us after lifetimes of victimisation and discrimination. Cash cow. Keep strong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We held a public forum here in Adelaide and the place was packed, people were all worried, anxious and decidedly uninformed, hardly a surprise given centrelink have yet to properly inform anyone about anything, this when the changes are still slated to kick in July 1 2009.<br />
The speaker from the welfare rights centre was magnificent, Marg Riley.<br />
She have out information in piles, she responded to questions from desperate and worried people and she reassured people that in the midst of this appallingly unfair treatment by government that welfare rights are at least there to provide support and assistance.<br />
My advice to everyone is to go to welfare rights, google welfare rights network / services and a map of oz comes up, talk with them FIRST about your situation, and get informed, do this BEFORE approaching centrelink or calling their useless waste of taxpayers same sex hotline.<br />
Then TOGETHER as a couple make decisions about what to do.<br />
Do not despair, we are still hounding the govt about this and we will NOT give up, how dare they do this to us after lifetimes of victimisation and discrimination. Cash cow. Keep strong.</p>
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		<title>By: Buffy</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-110219</link>
		<dc:creator>Buffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-110219</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m happy there&#039;s progress with the laws. but I don&#039;t want to be defacto I want to get married.
I have been in receipt of a disability support pension since before I met my current partner. We are about to lose over $200 a week, our renthas risen $100 per week in the last eight months, we can&#039;t afford to move, we care for elderly parents and a disabled niece. I don&#039;t know what to do or who to speak to, we haveno future. I appreciate the laws have to be pulled into line but they&#039;re really not and we are very frightened. I havejust begun studying and now can&#039;t afford to continue after getting finance for a computer and buying all of my books. I&#039;m 41, my partner is 46 and we have no hope and very soon no home. My partner doesn&#039;t earn enough to support both of us. They are the facts. We are totally lost. For some it&#039;s not about money it&#039;s about survival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m happy there&#8217;s progress with the laws. but I don&#8217;t want to be defacto I want to get married.<br />
I have been in receipt of a disability support pension since before I met my current partner. We are about to lose over $200 a week, our renthas risen $100 per week in the last eight months, we can&#8217;t afford to move, we care for elderly parents and a disabled niece. I don&#8217;t know what to do or who to speak to, we haveno future. I appreciate the laws have to be pulled into line but they&#8217;re really not and we are very frightened. I havejust begun studying and now can&#8217;t afford to continue after getting finance for a computer and buying all of my books. I&#8217;m 41, my partner is 46 and we have no hope and very soon no home. My partner doesn&#8217;t earn enough to support both of us. They are the facts. We are totally lost. For some it&#8217;s not about money it&#8217;s about survival.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-109952</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-109952</guid>
		<description>The stupid here (I&#039;m skimming over any part of the thread involving ;;;;) is the proposition that two people on a subsistence-level Centrelink payment who HAVE SEX suddenly should get that docked by the government. It&#039;s long been stupid that it applied to heterosexual people; it&#039;s just as stupid that they&#039;re now trying to apply it to gay people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The stupid here (I&#8217;m skimming over any part of the thread involving ;;;;) is the proposition that two people on a subsistence-level Centrelink payment who HAVE SEX suddenly should get that docked by the government. It&#8217;s long been stupid that it applied to heterosexual people; it&#8217;s just as stupid that they&#8217;re now trying to apply it to gay people.</p>
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		<title>By: Troll-Off! Vote now for your favourite troll. &#8212; Hoyden About Town</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-109631</link>
		<dc:creator>Troll-Off! Vote now for your favourite troll. &#8212; Hoyden About Town</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 02:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-109631</guid>
		<description>[...] First up we have Iain Hall, who flailed around on &#8220;Quick hit: New Centrelink &#8220;equality&#8221; to hit older lesbians the worst&#8220;: Lauredhel Do you have no sense of humour? Offended by my using the term leftard? I&#8217;m [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] First up we have Iain Hall, who flailed around on &#8220;Quick hit: New Centrelink &#8220;equality&#8221; to hit older lesbians the worst&#8220;: Lauredhel Do you have no sense of humour? Offended by my using the term leftard? I&#8217;m [...]</p>
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		<title>By: centreflunk</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-86835</link>
		<dc:creator>centreflunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-86835</guid>
		<description>Lucy dont rush back, simple let them wait til your ready sure they wont come sheet sniffing.......beppie doesnt matter for him he&#039;s single anyhow, he wont be touched financially, pftttttttttttt to it all</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucy dont rush back, simple let them wait til your ready sure they wont come sheet sniffing&#8230;&#8230;.beppie doesnt matter for him he&#8217;s single anyhow, he wont be touched financially, pftttttttttttt to it all</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-84861</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-84861</guid>
		<description>Imagine that for the past twenty years (I am in my forties), you had been told by Centrelink and its predecessors that they do not recognise same-sex relationships, and that even though you had declared you relationship time and time again, you were repeatedly told &quot;we don&#039;t recognise...&quot; and never once were you advised to prepare for things to change. And that you formed, then, a financially independent lifestyle and a relationship that was based on an expectation of financial independence, where separate finances were maintained even over a period of nearly a decade. Imagine further that you undertook financial obligations, such as a mortgage,and having children, based on having separate stable incomes, which you understood to be secure. And that you began a university course, while staying at home to raise kids. And that now, with absoluted no warning you are losing you financial independence, cannot afford the morgage, are having your relationship put under enormous stress because neither party is interested in being financial entwined with the other, will have to return to part time work and put the kids in childcare (which also now becomes three times more expensive once benefits are lost) and give up the university course (having spent thousands and thousands of dollars on it already. Then you might see why this change is unfair. It simply is not enough notice for people making life choices based on understandings of entitlements. What is their rush? Centrelink has not even written to the people on its books who previously declared same-sex relationships, but has left us to find out from the media, giving me, personally, just eight months to completely alter my life and plans for the next five years. There will also be a tremdous financial cost, something we would not have incurred if given three years notice, or similar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imagine that for the past twenty years (I am in my forties), you had been told by Centrelink and its predecessors that they do not recognise same-sex relationships, and that even though you had declared you relationship time and time again, you were repeatedly told &#8220;we don&#8217;t recognise&#8230;&#8221; and never once were you advised to prepare for things to change. And that you formed, then, a financially independent lifestyle and a relationship that was based on an expectation of financial independence, where separate finances were maintained even over a period of nearly a decade. Imagine further that you undertook financial obligations, such as a mortgage,and having children, based on having separate stable incomes, which you understood to be secure. And that you began a university course, while staying at home to raise kids. And that now, with absoluted no warning you are losing you financial independence, cannot afford the morgage, are having your relationship put under enormous stress because neither party is interested in being financial entwined with the other, will have to return to part time work and put the kids in childcare (which also now becomes three times more expensive once benefits are lost) and give up the university course (having spent thousands and thousands of dollars on it already. Then you might see why this change is unfair. It simply is not enough notice for people making life choices based on understandings of entitlements. What is their rush? Centrelink has not even written to the people on its books who previously declared same-sex relationships, but has left us to find out from the media, giving me, personally, just eight months to completely alter my life and plans for the next five years. There will also be a tremdous financial cost, something we would not have incurred if given three years notice, or similar.</p>
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		<title>By: Beppie</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-80747</link>
		<dc:creator>Beppie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-80747</guid>
		<description>In contrast-- some good news: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pension-justice-at-last-for-gay-war-widower/2009/01/02/1230681748875.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pension Justice at Last for Gay War Widower&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In contrast&#8211; some good news: <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pension-justice-at-last-for-gay-war-widower/2009/01/02/1230681748875.html" rel="nofollow">Pension Justice at Last for Gay War Widower</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-80408</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-80408</guid>
		<description>Same Sex Relationship Recognition, Social Security and older people:
Not equality, but discrimination twice over

I commend the Government for the passage of the Same-Sex Relationships (Equal Treatment in Commonwealth Laws—General Law Reform) Act 2008, but am concerned about one glaring injustice the legislation has inadvertently brought about - the removal of age and disability pensions and other allowances and benefits from a class of persons who will suffer immeasurably as a result.

I understand that this is the first amendment to the Social Security Act in over 15 years that has removed a pension or benefit from a class of person and not grand-parented those already on a pension or benefit.

Older gay men and lesbians have suffered long-standing inequality, particularly in relation to family law, health insurance, taxation, property rights, access to employer benefits, access to insurance and superannuation, death and disability entitlements, compensation, laws of succession, and employer benefits for spouses. 

Social Security policy has evolved in response to social change, allowing for savings provisions for those who have been historically disadvantaged.  In many ways, the situation of gay and lesbian couples now affected by Act is analogous to that faced by women during the phasing out of Social Security payments targeting women, due to the changing role of women in Australian society.

Many older people in same-sex relationships will be precluded from Social Security entitlements under pension and allowance income and assets tests due to their partner’s income and assets, despite the fact that historically they have had no or limited rights to other entitlements (including taxation, employer, disability, superannuation and insurance entitlements) because their status as a partner was not recognised.  Given that the raft of reforms the Government has now introduced has come too late to affect their accrual of such entitlements; it is unjust and unfair that older people now bear the effects of the disadvantageous aspects of the reforms.

Financial planning and accruing assets to fund retirement is a long term strategy. Older people in or nearing retirement, now have little or no chance to rearrange finances. They have not had the benefits of relationship recognition in their working life to assist in accruing assets &amp; now the rules have been shifted under their feet in retirement or at the 11th hour.  This is unfair and unjust as many of those effected have no capacity to pick themselves up and move on.  There is not even any phase in period.

This is in marked contrast to the situation when many Social Security payments for women were phased out, when Social Security legislation in the past also caught up with social change. 

When new claims for Widow Pension and Partner Allowance were made unavailable, those payments were retained for older widows, divorcees and separated women whose adult life was one of financial dependency on their partner, with no or limited accrual of superannuation entitlements during periods of employment. 

Similarly, when the Age Pension eligibility age for women was raised from 60 years to 65 years in 1995 in response to changing societal values about women’s increased labour market participation and reduced dependence on their partners, that modest increase in age eligibility was to be phased in over some 20 years.

The last reforms to the Disability Support Pension (15 to 30 hours eligibility) grand parented those pensioners eligible under the 15 hour test.

There is a particular need for savings provisions for older people who would be adversely affected by the Social Security amendments.  Members of same sex couples have lived until now with certain societal limitations and their own particular expectations.  That is vastly different from a person in their twenties who may now enter into a gay or lesbian relationship expecting equality before the law, and acknowledging their relationship’s ‘de facto’ status and presenting the relationship as such to family, friends, colleagues, employers, the Australian Tax Office, their superannuation fund, Medicare, etc.

There are also a number of older gay men in particular who are on DSP because of chronic illness associated with HIV.  Many of these people take a number of medications to stay alive.  The loss of the DSP and the healthcare card could well be a death blow to some force many with chronic conditions further into poverty and have even more adverse health outcomes.

Older gay and lesbian couples have lived and worked anticipating their relationships will not be recognised under Social Security law and without any expectation of equality before the law generally. They have had no expectation of forced financial inter-dependency via recognition of their couple status under Social Security law.  To apply Social Security means tests to people who have long been disadvantaged before the law is effectively doubling their experience of discrimination.

There is no good social policy reason for the government to take this approach and to effectively punish those with chronic illnesses or older gay and lesbians in or approaching retirement.  This is not equality for older same sex couples: this is discrimination twice over.

I also note that Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission report Same-Sex: Same Entitlements and the Senate Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs inquiry into the Bill recommended that ” the Government give further consideration to what administrative or regulatory mechanisms may be available to appropriately manage the impact of the reforms on same-sex couples who may have benefits reduced under the changes”.

Cabinet chose to not give any further consideration to those issues and recommendations, particularly for older people, in what would be seen by many as a spiteful and mean-spirited act.

Mechanisms need to be implemented for people older than 55 in same sex relationships to not be regarded as de facto couples for Social Security purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same Sex Relationship Recognition, Social Security and older people:<br />
Not equality, but discrimination twice over</p>
<p>I commend the Government for the passage of the Same-Sex Relationships (Equal Treatment in Commonwealth Laws—General Law Reform) Act 2008, but am concerned about one glaring injustice the legislation has inadvertently brought about &#8211; the removal of age and disability pensions and other allowances and benefits from a class of persons who will suffer immeasurably as a result.</p>
<p>I understand that this is the first amendment to the Social Security Act in over 15 years that has removed a pension or benefit from a class of person and not grand-parented those already on a pension or benefit.</p>
<p>Older gay men and lesbians have suffered long-standing inequality, particularly in relation to family law, health insurance, taxation, property rights, access to employer benefits, access to insurance and superannuation, death and disability entitlements, compensation, laws of succession, and employer benefits for spouses. </p>
<p>Social Security policy has evolved in response to social change, allowing for savings provisions for those who have been historically disadvantaged.  In many ways, the situation of gay and lesbian couples now affected by Act is analogous to that faced by women during the phasing out of Social Security payments targeting women, due to the changing role of women in Australian society.</p>
<p>Many older people in same-sex relationships will be precluded from Social Security entitlements under pension and allowance income and assets tests due to their partner’s income and assets, despite the fact that historically they have had no or limited rights to other entitlements (including taxation, employer, disability, superannuation and insurance entitlements) because their status as a partner was not recognised.  Given that the raft of reforms the Government has now introduced has come too late to affect their accrual of such entitlements; it is unjust and unfair that older people now bear the effects of the disadvantageous aspects of the reforms.</p>
<p>Financial planning and accruing assets to fund retirement is a long term strategy. Older people in or nearing retirement, now have little or no chance to rearrange finances. They have not had the benefits of relationship recognition in their working life to assist in accruing assets &amp; now the rules have been shifted under their feet in retirement or at the 11th hour.  This is unfair and unjust as many of those effected have no capacity to pick themselves up and move on.  There is not even any phase in period.</p>
<p>This is in marked contrast to the situation when many Social Security payments for women were phased out, when Social Security legislation in the past also caught up with social change. </p>
<p>When new claims for Widow Pension and Partner Allowance were made unavailable, those payments were retained for older widows, divorcees and separated women whose adult life was one of financial dependency on their partner, with no or limited accrual of superannuation entitlements during periods of employment. </p>
<p>Similarly, when the Age Pension eligibility age for women was raised from 60 years to 65 years in 1995 in response to changing societal values about women’s increased labour market participation and reduced dependence on their partners, that modest increase in age eligibility was to be phased in over some 20 years.</p>
<p>The last reforms to the Disability Support Pension (15 to 30 hours eligibility) grand parented those pensioners eligible under the 15 hour test.</p>
<p>There is a particular need for savings provisions for older people who would be adversely affected by the Social Security amendments.  Members of same sex couples have lived until now with certain societal limitations and their own particular expectations.  That is vastly different from a person in their twenties who may now enter into a gay or lesbian relationship expecting equality before the law, and acknowledging their relationship’s ‘de facto’ status and presenting the relationship as such to family, friends, colleagues, employers, the Australian Tax Office, their superannuation fund, Medicare, etc.</p>
<p>There are also a number of older gay men in particular who are on DSP because of chronic illness associated with HIV.  Many of these people take a number of medications to stay alive.  The loss of the DSP and the healthcare card could well be a death blow to some force many with chronic conditions further into poverty and have even more adverse health outcomes.</p>
<p>Older gay and lesbian couples have lived and worked anticipating their relationships will not be recognised under Social Security law and without any expectation of equality before the law generally. They have had no expectation of forced financial inter-dependency via recognition of their couple status under Social Security law.  To apply Social Security means tests to people who have long been disadvantaged before the law is effectively doubling their experience of discrimination.</p>
<p>There is no good social policy reason for the government to take this approach and to effectively punish those with chronic illnesses or older gay and lesbians in or approaching retirement.  This is not equality for older same sex couples: this is discrimination twice over.</p>
<p>I also note that Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission report Same-Sex: Same Entitlements and the Senate Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs inquiry into the Bill recommended that ” the Government give further consideration to what administrative or regulatory mechanisms may be available to appropriately manage the impact of the reforms on same-sex couples who may have benefits reduced under the changes”.</p>
<p>Cabinet chose to not give any further consideration to those issues and recommendations, particularly for older people, in what would be seen by many as a spiteful and mean-spirited act.</p>
<p>Mechanisms need to be implemented for people older than 55 in same sex relationships to not be regarded as de facto couples for Social Security purposes.</p>
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		<title>By: Purrdence</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20081210.2920/quick-hit-new-centrelink-equality-to-hit-older-lesbians-the-worst/comment-page-1/#comment-72453</link>
		<dc:creator>Purrdence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=2920#comment-72453</guid>
		<description>The English teacher in me goes 
&quot;ARRRRRRGHAAAAAAAAAAAAAFFFFFFFAAAAAGH!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The English teacher in me goes<br />
&#8220;ARRRRRRGHAAAAAAAAAAAAAFFFFFFFAAAAAGH!&#8221;</p>
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