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tigtog (aka Viv) is the founder of this blog. She lives in Sydney, Australia: husband, 2 kids, cat, house, garden, just enough wine-racks and (sigh) far too few bookshelves.

This author has written 3449 posts for Hoyden About Town. Read more about tigtog »

63 responses to “Here be SPOILERZ!!1!”

  1. Sophie

    I wrote my (annoyed feminist-y) thoughts here: http://community.livejournal.com/feminist_fandom/46473.html

  2. tigtog

    The steampunk cyberking was cool. Here’s the original concept art from the Beeb:

    concept art - cyberking

  3. Beppie

    Yeah, the sexism in this one really bothered me too– Rosita was very much sidelined and then turned into a nanny, and Miss Hartigan– well, it could have worked if there was some sort of acknowledgement that there’s something pretty screwed up about a society in which a woman’s only escape from slavery is aligning herself with cybermen. I enjoyed the story overall, and I think Morrisey did a great job (I LOVED the dynamic between Morrisey and Tennant, especially in the first 15 minutes or so), but the misogyny in this episode bothered me more than it does in most New Doctor Who.

    (Nonetheless, I couldn’t help but squee when they showed all ten Doctors! Yay!)

  4. Lauredhel

    I thought for a few minutes that the Rosita issue was going to be confronted and resolved – because it seemed like the Doctor’s first clue that NewDoc wasn’t a Doctor was the way he treated Rosita. Then it just crashed into a heap. Housemaid? What?

    It’s Rusty of the paving-stone fellatio prison. I shouldn’t have expected anything, I guess.

  5. tigtog

    First, I did squee plently. However, I felt that a lot of this episode was Rusty going manic and glossing over all sorts of plot inconsistencies. Why did the cybermen need children to turn all those cogs? It was just an excuse to play up the Dickensian children in the workhouse/orphanage trope.

    Rosita was awesome, and although channeling that awesomeness into childcare as a resolution rankles us moderns, for a young woman of colour in 1851 to be offered the responsibility of nannying (rather than being a kitchen drudge or a tavern lightskirt) would have been a step up the social ladder – inside work with no heavy lifting, as it were.

    Miss Hartigan – yeah. There were lots of other ways to have had her be a ruthless villain corrupted by a sense of vengeance without it being presented as due to some sort of result of suffragist ideology. Lazy work, RTD.

  6. Beppie

    for a young woman of colour in 1851 to be offered the responsibility of nannying (rather than being a kitchen drudge or a tavern lightskirt) would have been a step up the social ladder – inside work with no heavy lifting, as it were.

    True, but I still felt that there needed to be some acknowledgement that her options were limited– as, for instance, was done in Human Nature/Family of Blood, where Martha can only work as a cleaner– when she demonstrates her skills as a doctor, Joan disbelieves her. While working as a nanny may be better than the alternatives of prosititution and kitchen drudgery, the Doctor is aware that women should have more options than that, and that the degree of “choice” she has there is very minimal– he could have at least made some note of that, and attempted to get Jackson to acknowledge that too.

  7. mick

    I really was dissapointed by this year’s Christmas special. It seemed lazy and thoroughly uninspired… I wonder if they split the budget usually associated with the Christmas special over al the specials that we are going to have this year?

  8. Lauredhel

    Ahhh, I was just reliving the Boots Dance from Blackpool, and thought I’d share.

  9. lala

    When he said that he had opened up her mind so that she could finally see what she had done, I was just waiting for her to say “My God, now I really see what I have done. And it is AWESOME!”

  10. Beppie

    It seemed lazy and thoroughly uninspired… I wonder if they split the budget usually associated with the Christmas special over al the specials that we are going to have this year?

    No, they have a proper budget for them (and also, I believe that the budget for this special was actually included as part of the S4 budget), but you are correct that Davies felt rather uninspired while writing it. I got The Writer’s Tale for Christmas, and apparently Davies had such a hard time coming up with something that they considered cancelling the Christmas Special altogether.

    Personally, I didn’t mind the story that much in this one– it was certainly fun, and I don’t require every episode to completely blow me away– but the way it treats women definitely dampens my enjoyment.

    I was just waiting for her to say “My God, now I really see what I have done. And it is AWESOME!”

    YES. This.

    (I’m actually kind of having this fantasy now where Yvonne Hartman, Lisa Hallet and Miss Hartigan all take over the world together.)

  11. mick

    @Beppie – Well, here’s hoping that the other specials end up being OK. I guess this one was always going to be a bit of a filler before we get the transition to the new Doctor which probably will happen in the specials to come.

  12. Beppie

    Mick– I’m pretty sure the other specials will be fine. They’re being filmed in a seperate block to the S4 filming (starting next month) so Rusty won’t be suffering from burnout in the same way that he was when writing the Christmas special, and he won’t have all the pressure of producing a whole series at the same time too. He’s also working pretty closely with Moffat, to ensure that the right loose ends are tied up, and also to ensure that the right loose ends are left open…

  13. Deus Ex Macintosh

    Well as RTD mentioned in ‘Dr Who Uncovered’ for this episode, it was always going to be impossible to top Voyage of the Damned from LAST christmas. And personally I think they’d just about expended all the potential narrative clout for the year in the big three-part series ender.

    I just really hate what they’ve done with the ‘new’ version of Cybermen and could cheerfully give whoever was responsible for Army of Ghosts/Doomsday a thorough kicking – he obviously can’t tell the difference between Cybermen and Daleks. Cybermen DID NOT have a creator (disabled or not), catchphrase or ideas of genetic perfection. They were an exploration of the idea that in the desperation to survive, something essentially human might be lost. The real horror of Cybermen was not that this loss would be so traumatic that you’d never survive it, but that the change was so incremental that you’d never even notice.

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..You’ve really not been paying attention, have you?

  14. Deus Ex Macintosh

    Sorry, of course I meant Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel … now who can give me Tom MacRae’s address?

  15. Lauredhel

    Awww, aseret-kitsune has a lyric-macro tribute to Tennant’s Doctor, to “Don’t You Forget About Me”. I’d really like to see this vidded.

    Tribute to Ten

  16. LizBee

    It was the very first Christmas special that didn’t feature the death of a person of colour!

    …Hey, it’s Russell T Davies, I take my squee where I can get it.

  17. Deus Ex Macintosh

    I took a second (and third) look at the episode having read Sophie’s irritation with the anti-feminist theme, but am not sure I agree. We’re getting hung up on Miss Hartigan’s use of the word “liberation” I think – the episode is set well before women’s suffrage had established itself in the cultural mainstream and probably has more to do with a release from the confines of gender expectation and the prison-like conditions of the workhouse where she is Matron rather than what we’d identify as feminist-style “emancipation”. The revenge motive seemed pretty well established for me and though I certainly share your distaste with the rape theme of her forced conversion to Cyberking I did like the reversal of her unexpected dominance over it.

    Rosita was … pretty pointless as a character and could have easily been eliminated from the script entirely and I never did get the point of using child labour – workhouses took adults and entire families as well, any of whom could have been exploited without resistance or comeback. Inmates had as few rights as convicts of the time and would have been wide open for abuse. Workhouses were the last gasp of the truly desperate before starvation on the streets – there wouldn’t have been any resistance.

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..The personal is political, the private is now public…

  18. Lauredhel

    While women’s suffrage doesn’t seem to have been a large-scale movement with momentum, ideas of women’s liberation and equal rights were certainly around in the mid-nineteenth century. Marion Reid’s “A plea for women” was published in 1843, and it included the idea of voting rights and a goal of universal suffrage.

    I can’t find a copy online, but here is one discussion of it. A further poke around reveals that there were formal meetings on women’s liberation and suffrage occurring at the time of the New Doctor’s setting. (see page 41 for an example.) Harriet Taylor’s The Enfranchisement of Women was published in 1851.

  19. Deus Ex Macintosh

    And Mary Wollstonecraft’s “Vindication of the Rights of Women” goes right back to 1792, but at this stage feminism was still the concern of the middle-classes. It was only around the time of the Married Women’s Property Act and repeal of the Contagious Diseases Act in the 1880s that ‘women’s suffrage’ started to habitually include women of the lower orders and really made a dent in public opinion.

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..The personal is political, the private is now public…

  20. hellonhairylegs

    It was strange, some of it seemed like a cheap shot at feminism/ suffragettes and the rest was just random Who. My squee-meter was lukewarm at best.

    I was just waiting for her to say “My God, now I really see what I have done. And it is AWESOME!”

    Me too!

    This episode seemed to be saying that as a woman you’re either evil (and prone to sudden weakness when the plot demands it) or great at looking after the children. Gah.

  21. Anna

    Wait wait wait…

    That’s what a Cyberman looks like? THAT?

    WHAT THE HELL WAS LISA WEARING IN TORCHWOOD?

    *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

    (Also, there’s a Feminist_Fandom Community on LJ? *runs to join*)

  22. coz

    I saw it last night and enjoyed it.
    To me misogyny means hatred of women, and I didn’t see that at all.
    Yes when ‘the Doctor’ said something about this not being a job for a woman and sent Roseita away, I raised my eyebrows and snorted “the Doctor would never say that”, and as it turned out he didn’t/wouldn’t…pesky time travel…or not as it were.
    It was set in a time period when everything wasn’t rosy and happy, (kinda like now and more so) does showing that make it sexist and wrong. Things suck, they still suck, why shy from from that.
    I thought the two women were strong and kick arse. Its a shame the episode wasn’t 4 hours long to really get into their motivations and needs but you get what you can get.

    The episode was and always is about The Doctor….it is a pretty self centered show and concept when you think about it. Everyone else is a foil and replaceable.
    I still loves it though.

    Next time they need to show a future Christmas special…..you make you own utopia rules up then. Oh they have…things still sucked then too.
    My main thing was the weird dog/monkey cyberbeasts, what the hell were they!?
    Old school costumes at their best.

    Remember the old days when Dr Who was 4 nights 1/2 hour long episodes. They had more scope to story tell and flesh out characters. I have more issue with the fact they rush things to fit them in. I love the 2 parters they do, more room to move.

  23. Beppie

    To me misogyny means hatred of women, and I didn’t see that at all.

    Very few misogynists actually claim to hate women– they simply think that women who don’t fulfil a wife/mother role are evil. Which pretty much how women are portrayed in this episode.

  24. Deus Ex Macintosh

    I’ve been a baaad girrrl… just bought complete series DVD sets for the three Tennant series plus Runway Bride and Voyage of the Damned. {blush}. The Next Doctor I think I can do without…

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..World waits in vain for the “but”…

  25. Brix

    i really thought that was iron-man in the background :)

  26. Lauredhel

    Hm, looks like we batty femmobitchez aren’t just making it all up. Someone’s just posted this in ihasatardis:

  27. hellonhairylegs

    People on the internetz: proving your point for you since 1973.

  28. coz

    Roseita wasn’t evil, she was a companion and I thought was pretty good at it too and while she probably wouldn’t have the best future it didn’t seem that it was going to be all bad either and at least with a chance to advance herself. Whats so terrible about being a housemaid/nanny anyway?

    Ms Hartigan was nasty, but someone has to be. Why should all the bad guys be boys? I’d happily be evil if I could swan around in that dress, I’m half way there already not being a mother.
    Of course she was going to come to a sticky end and rightly so.
    Was it manhating or rape when Mr Diagoras was merged into a Dalek against his will when he tried the same thing? I didn’t hear anything but maybe people had problems with that too.
    Try and make deals with emotionless robots from space and you are bound to be doomed.

  29. Beppie

    Coz, I think you need some feminism 101.

    There’s nothing wrong with being a housemaid/nanny per se, but there’s a huge problem when that’s presented as one’s only option in life– particularly when Rosita had, up to that point, displayed a number of skills that seemed to operate outside that sphere.

    Ms Hartigan was nasty, but someone has to be. Why should all the bad guys be boys?

    The bad guys don’t all have to be boys, but the show needs to show more than two roles for women. Any episode of Doctor Who, by its very nature (having a male protagonist), will have at least one positive male role model who is not not under pressure to define himself in solely in terms of husband/father. So there will always be some balance there. And generally, I think that having both male and female bad guys is a good thing, so long as the model for the “good” female characters is not limited. For instance, I have no problem with the way that Yvonne Hartman was portrayed in “Army of Ghosts/Doomsday”, because she was balanced out by diverse and strong female characters amongst the “good” guys (and indeed, she was something of an ambiguous figure herself), and I think that the same can be said of Lisa Hallet in Torchwood’s “Cyberwoman”*.

    In contrast to this, when you have an episode in which the two female characters are (a) someone who turns evil because she stood up to the patriarchal system of her day and (b) someone who is ultimately defined in terms of her ability to be a (surrogate) wife/mother, in spite of other skills that she has demonstrated, that reinforces a cultural narrative that has been used in attempts to stop women from expanding beyond the domestic sphere.

    *(Although unfortunately Lisa’s costume was clearly made to objectify her– a textbook female eunuch if ever I saw one– and the Whoniverse shows do have an unsettling trend of presenting interracial relationships only to have the person of colour turning out to be a bad guy who must then be killed– not so good. But my point is that I don’t think that Lisa’s cyberisation in and of itself was not used to suggest that women shouldn’t try to break away from systems that enslave them.)

  30. tigtog
  31. tigtog

    Oh, and on the whole misogyny means HATING women etc, I posted on that earlier this month. Etymology is fascinating, but it’s not the be-all and end-all of a word’s meaning.

  32. calyx

    Aaarrghhh finally I can find somewhere sympathetic to rant about the episode! I’ve submitted an application to join feminist_fandom too!

    Basically what people are saying above! WTF Doctor colonising Ms Harrigan’s mind! Again! Strong woman, ambition, ooh obviously let’s be evil! And she has to have surrogate changeling children in lieu of a man’s sperm cuz women are compulsive mothers, don’t forget that!

    Rosita! Arrgh! She had very little personality or time spent on her, you cannot magically short-cut character into her by making her punch another woman, and she is written as happily nannying/mothering a white man’s boy after having been an adventurer. She fades into the background. Wots-his-name insults her with sexism and although it was a good plot device, it is later never found to need addressing to rescind.

    Damn, I really didn’t like VOTD and I didn’t like this episode much either. What with this and with the upcoming Moffat, I’m not so sure I’m going to like this show as much as I did.

  33. Beppie

    Tigtog– thanks for that link! I did a search for it, but on the Feminism 101 blog, not here! Silly me.

    Calyx, I’m hoping that some of the “clingy woman” and MRA-like sentiments that Moffat has expressed in the past won’t overflow into his Doctor Who writing too much– River Song was certainly a strong and independent woman, and Nancy and Reinette were pretty cool too.

  34. coz

    Sorry I didn’t realise I was the wrong kind of feminist….must brush up obviously.

    I still don’t see what the fuss is about, it is a one hour episode with loads of issues and story to get through.
    The Doctor is the main guy, he always will be.
    How many other characters have been pushed aside in his story and it is his story, that is why we keep watching.
    I cried when the whole Donna memory loss thing happened, soooo very very unfair, but I’ll keep watching.

    So, the tiny nuances of one persons life wasn’t delved into. Oh noes…
    What would you like to see happen?
    Just because Roseita was seen to be boxed into a ‘lesser’ life (in our eyes) in the 1800’s which wasn’t a great life for anyone, male or female, but she probably had better than others. Either that or she was killed by Cybermen.
    Maybe she went off and became a Starship Captain, lets not deny her that.

  35. tigtog

    Nobody said you were the wrong kind of feminist, Coz. There’s just some debate happening.

  36. Sophie

    anna: Being familiar with Dr Who first my reaction was “THAT’S NOT WHAT CYBERMEN LOOK LIKE”. Also I watched the end of Dr Who season 2 (about the cyberman invasion she got caught up in, though she and Ianto never appear) and NONE of them looked like that. Bah.

    Anyway, I’m glad people found my link useful. There’s also http://community.livejournal.com/whileaway which has a more literary focus.

  37. calyx

    Re Moffat, meh, I didn’t take to River Song at all, she seemed more like a caricature of a strong woman to me than an actual one, with her acting like a sexist man towards men as if that is the only way to be a strong woman – by mirroring sexist men. And I HATED her ending, happily nannying kids, with sexism bridging the explanation gap between her as an extremely independent adventurer and her an ultra-feminine mother in white purity. I really liked Moffat’s previous episodes even if it misses the colourful camp goofiness that I love about Old and New Who, but this left a stale taste in my mouth.

    Nancy was cool, although she could only fix the world by naming her sexual shame – hmm. Reinette – I don’t have much of an opinion on her, but she is entirely defined by men which does render her intelligence safe.

  38. tigtog

    As I’ve said before, I thought a lot of people leapt to judgement on that ending for River Song – we see her telling a bedtime story and turning out the light. Nothing about that says anything necessarily more than Auntie River unless we put it there – there were children to be looked after, why wouldn’t all the adults form a caring cooperative and work things on a roster system?

    I also don’t remember her acting like a sexist man – jog my memory? She was bossy and pretty arrogant, but belittling the men qua men wasn’t happening.

    I’m with you on Nancy and Reinette.

  39. Deus Ex Macintosh

    I really liked River Song as she didn’t seem to be taking anything, let alone herself, too seriously. Am really hoping she crops up in some of the specials this year.

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..World waits in vain for the “but”…

  40. calyx

    Hmm, I felt we were meant to focus on River with the kids, as her getting her fulfilment in heaven. Technically, she could have been sharing their care in a really progressive way with the others, and she could have just happened to be wearing something ultra feminine and earth!motherly that day, whilst she went off adventuring, nothing contradicts that in canon, but I just don’t think enough clues were given to deviate from what the overwhelming tide of social expectation is for a women’s reward/destiny in fiction – motherhood. Certainly a lot of people on OG seemed to sum up her ending that way.

    River Song was beck-and-calling the guys, with “ugly” or “pretty” in a dismissive way much as guys do to women, I mean, I guess that could be seen as cool, but on telly rather than real life, it squicked me, seemed to me like the writer was trying really too hard to personify her as “strong”. She also seemed to me to be the sum of a list of qualities that the Doctor is supposed to find attractive, which isn’t exactly sexist, just not quite fitting together as a realistic person – a whiff of condescension, not to mention Miss Evangelista’s portrayal (AARGH). But, I guess there’s River Song created as she is, and no River Song created, and she’s MUCH better than most female characters we see – even if her “edgy” existence seems to me to be reassuringly cancelled out by the end like most women on telly who might make men the teensiest bit uncomfy do, at least we’ve got someone female who for a while was really quite independent and fearless compared to most on telly. I guess she’ll be back!

  41. Beppie

    River Song was beck-and-calling the guys, with “ugly” or “pretty” in a dismissive way much as guys do to women,

    I don’t think she called anyone ugly. She referred to the Doctor as “pretty boy”, and she told Mr. Lux to put his helmet on “because I don’t fancy you,” which I took to be more a matter of personality than physical appearance– mostly though, I thought that statement was in there to establish River’s 51st century omnisexuality.

    I agree that the portrayal of Miss Evangelista was highly problematic, with the whole pretty-stupid/ugly-intelligent dichotomy, but River Song herself is both attractive and intelligent, so it’s not like it applies across the board.

    Ultimately, I think we are going to have to deal with sexism in Moffat’s episodes, but no moreso than we have to deal with in Rusty’s, although it might manifest itself in different ways.

  42. tigtog

    To continue with the nitpicking (sorry, calyx!) I’m also going to take issue with this:

    her getting her fulfilment in heaven

    The digital world inside the Library wasn’t heaven, it was survival. After all, all those other people who were inside the library were returned to a normal life, and the only reason that the archeology team were not is that their bodies hadn’t been stored at the same time as their memories (because the bodies had actually died).

    Who is to say that a way to find them new bodies won’t be arrived at in the not-too-distant future, even if they have to put their minds inside robot bodies? Then they are back out in the world again.

    Also Beppie, at the end, when River met up with the rest of the team, Miss Evangelista looked normal again rather than deformed. I assumed that her increased intelligence would also remain, because she had become accustomed to it in the interim and it would be cruel to take it away – was I alone in that assumption?

  43. tigtog

    @ Beppie:

    River Song was beck-and-calling the guys, with “ugly” or “pretty” in a dismissive way much as guys do to women,

    I don’t think she called anyone ugly. She referred to the Doctor as “pretty boy”, and she told Mr. Lux to put his helmet on “because I don’t fancy you,” which I took to be more a matter of personality than physical appearance– mostly though, I thought that statement was in there to establish River’s 51st century omnisexuality.

    Also, IIRC, she was only doing that in the initial period where she thought the Doctor knew who she was i.e. she was flirting playfully with him as she was possibly accustomed to do, and the “because I don’t fancy you” was an extension of that flirting with the Doctor. Once she realised that he didn’t know who she was, she stopped all that, didn’t she?

  44. Beppie

    Tigtog, I did assume that Miss Evangelina kept her intelligence, but she was pretty much in the background for that whole final sequence, which means that the pretty-stupid/ugly-smart dichtomy is still the aspect of her character that’s emphasised above everything else. Nonetheless, I admit the fact that Moffat does not present this dichotomy as universal does guide viewers towards an interpretation of Miss E’s fate that allows her to keep her intelligence.

    I hadn’t actually thought that the “I don’t fancy you” was for the Doctor’s benefit, although now that you’ve mentioned it, I can see where you’re coming from. But personally, I like to think that it stems from River’s omnisexuality for no other reason than we need a woman (or two) to balance out Cpts Jack and John.

  45. Deus Ex Macintosh

    Tigtog, I did assume that Miss Evangelina kept her intelligence, but she was pretty much in the background for that whole final sequence, which means that the pretty-stupid/ugly-smart dichtomy is still the aspect of her character that’s emphasised above everything else.

    I also assumed she kept the intelligence (the point of virtual existence being that EVERYTHING is controllable) but I didn’t have a problem with the ugly-smart dichotomy as thats a very old cultural constant he’s tapping into. In celtic mythology, the oldest goddess The Morrigan has a three-fold aspect one of whom is “the ugly young woman of great wisdom” which various heroes have poetic duels with as part of their trials. Hence the bit about having “the two qualities you require to see absolute truth. I am brilliant, and unloved.”

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..World waits in vain for the “but”…

  46. Beppie

    Casting for the Eleventh Doctor will be announced on Jan 3 at 17:35 GMT, on BBC1.

    *anticipates*

  47. Deus Ex Macintosh

    I am so THERE

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..Australia sux … New Zealand seven

  48. Lauredhel

    Hoyden About Town has been added by someone as one of the sources for Doctor Who casting rumours on Wikipedia: “List of actors considered for the part of the Doctor” (the page probably won’t be there for long!)

  49. Deus Ex Macintosh

    Right, who’s running the book? What odds will you give me for Xmas being a double-bluff and David Morrissey IS the new Doctor?

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..Australia sux … New Zealand seven

  50. Deus Ex Macintosh

    It’s Matt Smith… (*sob*)

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..Australia sux … New Zealand seven

  51. Beppie

    Here’s a link for anyone who wants pictures.

    Have no idea who the actor is, I’ve never seen his stuff, though I’ve been wanting to see Ruby in the Smoke for ages, so maybe I’ll give that a go now. Disappointed that they went with another white guy again though. :/

  52. Deus Ex Macintosh

    I’m disappointed that they’ve gone for someone who seems very like David Tennant in appearance but will wait to see what he does with the role before passing judgement. DT grew on me after a while, maybe the kid will too.

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..Australia sux … New Zealand seven

  53. Beppie

    I think they’re going to have to make sure that his hair and costume are very different from Tennant’s.

    here’s a link to his interview after the announcement. I like the way he talks with his hands, especially the Sparkle Motion-y bits.

    [admin embed magic *sparkle hands* done ~L]

  54. Deus Ex Macintosh

    Okay, the sparkly-motion is cool.. :)

  55. SunlessNick

    I was bothered by the writing in the special too, but I saw one thing differently, which was her screaming at the end; I thought it shaded into rage, and a deliberate attempt to destroy the Cybermen. As if… a comment to Sophie’s post suggests that Miss Hartigan saw the cyberconversion as an escape from the poverty and oppression laid on so many in the period; if that’s what she thought, then she was converted, and her mind hybridised with the cyber-drives, until the Doctor separates them; then she sees the Cybermen from the inside, knows that the conversion is another oppression, and destroys them (making her a figure somewhat like Dalek Caan). Though that’s not so much how I see as how I want to see her because it makes me feel better.

    As I’ve said before, I thought a lot of people leapt to judgement on that ending for River Song – we see her telling a bedtime story and turning out the light.

    I get the soundtrack CDs, which include some comments by Murray Gold for each track – the comments about the River Song tracks imply that the ending was meant to be questioned – that “was she saved or condemned” was something we were supposed to be asking. Though that might just be Gold’s opinion.

    I just really hate what they’ve done with the ‘new’ version of Cybermen and could cheerfully give whoever was responsible for Army of Ghosts/Doomsday a thorough kicking – he obviously can’t tell the difference between Cybermen and Daleks.

    It would be interesting to do a story where the two versions of Cybermen encounter each other. Though I also think the old Cybermen shades into Daleks over time, as they became hostile conquerers; the thing I like about the new ones is that there isn’t a drop of malice in them.

  56. su

    11 was on the ABC on Tuesday night in Party Animals. Uncharismatic character so hard to judge I suppose but I just can’t see it. I just can’t imagine him having the requisite anarchic bent for the Doctor. But then I’d seen Tennant and Eccleston in some anarchic roles before Who (If anyone missed seeing Tennant in Takin over the asylum it would be worth tracking down- fabulous I thought), so maybe the fault lies with my imagination.

  57. Belated Whoydensday Quickhit: “The Next Doctor” on Australian screens — Hoyden About Town

    [...] This Sunday! Finally those who haven’t yet caught up with the 2008 Doctor Who Christmas Special (overseas while on hols etc) can discuss it with the rest of us (spoilers ahoy in this earlier post). [...]

  58. Purrdence

    Su, Takin Over the Asylum is *finally* on DVD through Amazon UK.

  59. su

    Yay, Purrdence. I really liked Katy Murphy in that too. My timing is such that the ABC here usually decides to rerun a series right after I’ve bought the dvd’s. Maybe I can bluff them somehow. I am definitely intending to purchase these dvds, universe.

  60. Chally

    What interesting thoughts, everyone. I watched the season final of Party Animals and I think I see a hint of Doctorishness in Matt Smith.

    I must get to an ABC shop at some point. It’s so expensive though, is there anywhere cheaper for Doctor Who DVDs in Aus, anyone?

    Chally’s last blog post..New Sarah Haskins! Target Women: Ann Curry

  61. Lauredhel

    It’s so expensive though, is there anywhere cheaper for Doctor Who DVDs in Aus, anyone?

    My local public library carries some new Who DVDs for loan.

  62. Deus Ex Macintosh

    I seem to end up sending my Mum loads of stuff from Amazon because she can’t get it in Brisbane.

    Deus Ex Macintosh’s last blog post..Perfectly Impartial in Every Way

  63. Chally

    Thanks. :)

    Chally’s last blog post..New Sarah Haskins! Target Women: Ann Curry

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