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	<title>Comments on: Antibreastfeeding Bingo</title>
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	<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/</link>
	<description>That's *MS* Hoyden to you</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:33:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: A new analogy! Breastfeeding = bloodied corpses. &#8212; Hoyden About Town</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-2/#comment-130552</link>
		<dc:creator>A new analogy! Breastfeeding = bloodied corpses. &#8212; Hoyden About Town</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 06:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-130552</guid>
		<description>[...] read an awful lot of comment threads about public breastfeeding (Bingo card here), so to come across a new objection is rather a special [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] read an awful lot of comment threads about public breastfeeding (Bingo card here), so to come across a new objection is rather a special [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Families protest breastfeeding discrimination at Barnett&#8217;s office; is he about to flip? &#8212; Hoyden About Town</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-2/#comment-129860</link>
		<dc:creator>Families protest breastfeeding discrimination at Barnett&#8217;s office; is he about to flip? &#8212; Hoyden About Town</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-129860</guid>
		<description>[...] to comment policy for this post: If you&#8217;re planning to Bingo me: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to comment policy for this post: If you&#8217;re planning to Bingo me: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-2/#comment-127232</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-127232</guid>
		<description>Or even 45 minutes, especially if that was the only time she had available to find some food, and a drink, and to go to the toilet herself.  I think she managed admirably under the circumstances.  And I admire her aplomb - I found it hard enough feeding in public, &#039;tho I did it, let alone pumping.  I didn&#039;t do so well on the pumping in any case - about 25mls per 10 minutes, from the one breast I have that actually works (lumps removed from the other, so I don&#039;t get nerve stimulation, so no let-down reflex).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or even 45 minutes, especially if that was the only time she had available to find some food, and a drink, and to go to the toilet herself.  I think she managed admirably under the circumstances.  And I admire her aplomb &#8211; I found it hard enough feeding in public, &#8216;tho I did it, let alone pumping.  I didn&#8217;t do so well on the pumping in any case &#8211; about 25mls per 10 minutes, from the one breast I have that actually works (lumps removed from the other, so I don&#8217;t get nerve stimulation, so no let-down reflex).</p>
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		<title>By: Mindy</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-2/#comment-127230</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-127230</guid>
		<description>10 minutes of pumping would have netted me about 20ml of milk, certainly not enough to feed a hungry baby. Pumping rates vary from woman to woman and 10 minutes may not have been enough for her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>10 minutes of pumping would have netted me about 20ml of milk, certainly not enough to feed a hungry baby. Pumping rates vary from woman to woman and 10 minutes may not have been enough for her.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma Someone</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-2/#comment-127199</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma Someone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-127199</guid>
		<description>@lauradhel
Breaks were 10 min/hour and 45 mins for lunch... so adequate for the setup and packup process as well as all the rest of things she has every right to attend to? I think what bugged people was that it was disrupting class and she had been offered an alternative that was private and set up for expressing already. 

As I said - it didn&#039;t bother me and I&#039;m trying to work out what bothered them! It wouldn&#039;t have bothered me if it was a babe or toddler or child, and it didn&#039;t bother me that it was a pump. She was well-prepared for it, didn&#039;t make a big deal out of it when doing it, and only spilt a bit of milk (sadly!) when closing the containers. 

I&#039;m unsure of how to discuss this with the people in my class who are midwives. I kid you not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lauradhel<br />
Breaks were 10 min/hour and 45 mins for lunch&#8230; so adequate for the setup and packup process as well as all the rest of things she has every right to attend to? I think what bugged people was that it was disrupting class and she had been offered an alternative that was private and set up for expressing already. </p>
<p>As I said &#8211; it didn&#8217;t bother me and I&#8217;m trying to work out what bothered them! It wouldn&#8217;t have bothered me if it was a babe or toddler or child, and it didn&#8217;t bother me that it was a pump. She was well-prepared for it, didn&#8217;t make a big deal out of it when doing it, and only spilt a bit of milk (sadly!) when closing the containers. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m unsure of how to discuss this with the people in my class who are midwives. I kid you not.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-2/#comment-127197</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-127197</guid>
		<description>How long were the breaks? If they were five to ten minute breaks, that&#039;s generally nowhere near long enough to get somewhere, set up, pump, cap and store milk, wash up, pack up, and get back to destination. Bear in mind that this woman will also need to do what most everyone else does in the breaks - stretch legs, drink, eat, go to the toilet. Expressing can be done while sitting and thinking and listening and talking, but not (well, not effectively, generally) while walking around doing things. 

A break at least half an hour long halfway through the class may have been a better way to accommodate her needs, if she preferred to express in private; though if she wasn&#039;t a particularly quick expresser, she may have also needed someone to bring her food and drink while she spent that time expressing.

If you&#039;re asking me what I personally think? If she was expressing with a pump quiet enough not to unreasonably disrupt the class, I would have zero problem with it. You may not realise, Emma Someone, that I have pumped milk in public many a time - on aeroplanes, in parties, in family reunions, and in restaurants. Sit-down times were perfect times to express, and when you have to express for at least 160 minutes a day, it&#039;s going to overlap with something else that needs doing. No-one ever had a visible issue with me expressing, and many people were helpful and kind. It was lovely to feed my child in such a supportive environment, and there is no reason that environment can&#039;t exist everywhere. 

Perhaps it could have been an opportunity for those people - and Psychology students at that! - to reflect on their own feelings, and examine exactly why they were &quot;freaked out&quot;, and look at how their emotions were the product of a deeply abnormal and fucked-up upbringing in a society with a nonsensical taboo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How long were the breaks? If they were five to ten minute breaks, that&#8217;s generally nowhere near long enough to get somewhere, set up, pump, cap and store milk, wash up, pack up, and get back to destination. Bear in mind that this woman will also need to do what most everyone else does in the breaks &#8211; stretch legs, drink, eat, go to the toilet. Expressing can be done while sitting and thinking and listening and talking, but not (well, not effectively, generally) while walking around doing things. </p>
<p>A break at least half an hour long halfway through the class may have been a better way to accommodate her needs, if she preferred to express in private; though if she wasn&#8217;t a particularly quick expresser, she may have also needed someone to bring her food and drink while she spent that time expressing.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re asking me what I personally think? If she was expressing with a pump quiet enough not to unreasonably disrupt the class, I would have zero problem with it. You may not realise, Emma Someone, that I have pumped milk in public many a time &#8211; on aeroplanes, in parties, in family reunions, and in restaurants. Sit-down times were perfect times to express, and when you have to express for at least 160 minutes a day, it&#8217;s going to overlap with something else that needs doing. No-one ever had a visible issue with me expressing, and many people were helpful and kind. It was lovely to feed my child in such a supportive environment, and there is no reason that environment can&#8217;t exist everywhere. </p>
<p>Perhaps it could have been an opportunity for those people &#8211; and Psychology students at that! &#8211; to reflect on their own feelings, and examine exactly why they were &#8220;freaked out&#8221;, and look at how their emotions were the product of a deeply abnormal and fucked-up upbringing in a society with a nonsensical taboo.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-2/#comment-127181</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 02:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-127181</guid>
		<description>P.S. she may also have some invisible disability issues that make that walk across the hall not as simple as it might superficially appear to the temporarily able-bodied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. she may also have some invisible disability issues that make that walk across the hall not as simple as it might superficially appear to the temporarily able-bodied.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-2/#comment-127180</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 02:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-127180</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;http://viv.id.au/blog/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/#comment-127172&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Emma Someone&lt;/a&gt;:

Emma, it does sound as if in that situation there had been plenty of accommodations made for her to pump in privacy at appropriate intervals, so it does make one wonder why she did not.  But she shouldn&#039;t be required to sequester herself in order to pump either.

Perhaps she was trying to make a point?  She&#039;s perfectly entitled to do so, of course.

Miss Manners would say that it is wrong to make other people uncomfortable when a small effort on your part would remove that discomfort from their experience.  But Miss Manners rules often require women to collaborate in making their own efforts invisible and therefore easily dismissed, so I&#039;m half &quot;she could have been more polite&quot; and half &quot;bollocks to that&quot;.

I wonder whether what the other students feel is &quot;inappropriate&quot; is not so much her expressing per se but that she felt no need to make her effort invisible for the benefit of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="http://viv.id.au/blog/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/#comment-127172" rel="nofollow"> Emma Someone</a>:</p>
<p>Emma, it does sound as if in that situation there had been plenty of accommodations made for her to pump in privacy at appropriate intervals, so it does make one wonder why she did not.  But she shouldn&#8217;t be required to sequester herself in order to pump either.</p>
<p>Perhaps she was trying to make a point?  She&#8217;s perfectly entitled to do so, of course.</p>
<p>Miss Manners would say that it is wrong to make other people uncomfortable when a small effort on your part would remove that discomfort from their experience.  But Miss Manners rules often require women to collaborate in making their own efforts invisible and therefore easily dismissed, so I&#8217;m half &#8220;she could have been more polite&#8221; and half &#8220;bollocks to that&#8221;.</p>
<p>I wonder whether what the other students feel is &#8220;inappropriate&#8221; is not so much her expressing per se but that she felt no need to make her effort invisible for the benefit of others.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma Someone</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-1/#comment-127172</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma Someone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-127172</guid>
		<description>It was a 5 hour class, with breaks every hour, and she&#039;d negotiated to use a room to do this before the class but decided she couldn&#039;t be bothered walking to the room (across the hallway) and would do it in class instead, thereby freaking out a lot of the people in the (psychology) class. :) 

It&#039;s a genuine question and I&#039;m asking because I am in the situation where I myself wasn&#039;t bothered by the act but others were and was I notbothered because I&#039;m openminded, woman-focused, aware of the discomfort issue and fully supportive of a woman&#039;s right to breastfeed, or am I at the extreme of &quot;whatever floats your boat - it takes more courage to do it than for me to be ok with it&quot; spectrum and other people aren&#039;t? I&#039;ve had a lot of students tell me that it was &quot;inapporpriate&quot; but they can&#039;t articulate why... hence the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a 5 hour class, with breaks every hour, and she&#8217;d negotiated to use a room to do this before the class but decided she couldn&#8217;t be bothered walking to the room (across the hallway) and would do it in class instead, thereby freaking out a lot of the people in the (psychology) class. :) </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a genuine question and I&#8217;m asking because I am in the situation where I myself wasn&#8217;t bothered by the act but others were and was I notbothered because I&#8217;m openminded, woman-focused, aware of the discomfort issue and fully supportive of a woman&#8217;s right to breastfeed, or am I at the extreme of &#8220;whatever floats your boat &#8211; it takes more courage to do it than for me to be ok with it&#8221; spectrum and other people aren&#8217;t? I&#8217;ve had a lot of students tell me that it was &#8220;inapporpriate&#8221; but they can&#8217;t articulate why&#8230; hence the question.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/comment-page-1/#comment-127171</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=3832#comment-127171</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;http://viv.id.au/blog/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/#comment-127168&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Emma Someone&lt;/a&gt;:

Should that woman have to miss out on class in order to pump?  Or sit there in aching discomfort until the class is over when she could be relieving that pain by using the pump?  Just so that others in the class don&#039;t get freaked out by breastmilk getting pumped?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="http://viv.id.au/blog/20090220.3832/antibreastfeeding-bingo/#comment-127168" rel="nofollow"> Emma Someone</a>:</p>
<p>Should that woman have to miss out on class in order to pump?  Or sit there in aching discomfort until the class is over when she could be relieving that pain by using the pump?  Just so that others in the class don&#8217;t get freaked out by breastmilk getting pumped?</p>
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