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	<title>Comments on: Gone too far?</title>
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	<description>"We are the women that men have warned us about." - Robin Morgan</description>
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		<title>By: openid.aol.com/librarianme…</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-133288</link>
		<dc:creator>openid.aol.com/librarianme…</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-133288</guid>
		<description>I think that while the vast majority of women may use formula, in certain circles, it is far from the majority. I live in a very crunchy granola area (and I mean that in a positive way) where most of the people I know are very into attachment parenting and extended breastfeeding. I didn&#039;t know ANYONE in my area who didn&#039;t breastfeed and my mom breastfed my brother and myself for around 2 yrs each. I didn&#039;t even have bottles at home when I gave birth to my son. So when I had problems nursing and had to supplement with formula while also pumping, I felt like the worst mother in the world. Also, I think a lot of middle and upper-middle class educated women don&#039;t talk about using formula because they&#039;re embarrassed, creating a situation where future women feel alone because they think they&#039;re the only ones who went through these problems and chose formula. When I recently wrote about &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.wolfwater.com/2009/08/04/breast-vs-bottle-and-mommy-judgmentalism/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my problems with breastfeeding my son&lt;/a&gt;, I got so many responses from friends telling me they&#039;d had similar problems and ended up supplementing or totally formula feeding. I think it&#039;s great that there is such a strong network of support for women breastfeeding, but I wish I&#039;d had some support for my choice to supplement with formula and pump, which ended up being the absolutely best thing for my son. I just think people are too embarrassed to speak out and support other women struggling with the same issues. And I&#039;m not saying that anyone should feel sorry for folks who choose formula, but I think there should be more support for people who struggle with breastfeeding, choose another route for their child&#039;s and their own health, and probably mourn the loss of that nursing relationship. There&#039;s a lot of support for women with problems nursing until they make the choice not to nurse. And then what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that while the vast majority of women may use formula, in certain circles, it is far from the majority. I live in a very crunchy granola area (and I mean that in a positive way) where most of the people I know are very into attachment parenting and extended breastfeeding. I didn&#8217;t know ANYONE in my area who didn&#8217;t breastfeed and my mom breastfed my brother and myself for around 2 yrs each. I didn&#8217;t even have bottles at home when I gave birth to my son. So when I had problems nursing and had to supplement with formula while also pumping, I felt like the worst mother in the world. Also, I think a lot of middle and upper-middle class educated women don&#8217;t talk about using formula because they&#8217;re embarrassed, creating a situation where future women feel alone because they think they&#8217;re the only ones who went through these problems and chose formula. When I recently wrote about <a href="http://blog.wolfwater.com/2009/08/04/breast-vs-bottle-and-mommy-judgmentalism/" rel="nofollow">my problems with breastfeeding my son</a>, I got so many responses from friends telling me they&#8217;d had similar problems and ended up supplementing or totally formula feeding. I think it&#8217;s great that there is such a strong network of support for women breastfeeding, but I wish I&#8217;d had some support for my choice to supplement with formula and pump, which ended up being the absolutely best thing for my son. I just think people are too embarrassed to speak out and support other women struggling with the same issues. And I&#8217;m not saying that anyone should feel sorry for folks who choose formula, but I think there should be more support for people who struggle with breastfeeding, choose another route for their child&#8217;s and their own health, and probably mourn the loss of that nursing relationship. There&#8217;s a lot of support for women with problems nursing until they make the choice not to nurse. And then what?</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132644</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132644</guid>
		<description>@MomTFH
It was very much an internal matter.  I had good reason for not being able to breast feed twins (only one working breast due to lumps being removed, very small breasts so it was physically difficult to hold two babies, partner who was not coping, lactation consultant who despite repeated requests didn&#039;t turn up until day four!, a houseful of people the day I came home (also day four), on tenterhooks waiting to hear about my PhD dissertation so very little emotional energy, one small weak baby who didn&#039;t latch or suck well).  I had previously fed my elder daughter for a year with no problems - it was a joy for both of us.  As you can see, all the reasons for stopping breast feeding were personal, not social, except for the lactation consultant.  And I couldn&#039;t help thinking that if only I had tried a little harder, maybe we could have managed.  

I genuinely think that my guilt and disappointment was very much an internal matter.  It was a standard I had set myself, and I didn&#039;t meet it.  My Plunket nurse (in-home nurse visiting service in New Zealand) was supportive, as was my doctor, and my obstetrician.  They all said, more-or-less, that yes, it was a shame that I hadn&#039;t been able to breast feed, but the girls were doing very well, and they had all the other things you could possibly wish for.

So there you have it.  It was an internal standard, not an external judgement.  No one else seemed in the least bit upset that I was bottle feeding my twins.  At the same time, I wanted to hold up a sign saying, &quot;I tried.  I really did!&quot;  On the other hand, I would endorse the benefits of breast feeding, every single time.  There&#039;s no doubt that it is better than bottle feeding.  Maybe bottle feeders, including me, just need to get over it.  Bottle feeding done well is fine, and babies will do well enough on it.  It just not as good.  And there&#039;s a distinction between &quot;not as good&quot; and &quot;bad.&quot;  Bottle feeding done well is the former, not the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MomTFH<br />
It was very much an internal matter.  I had good reason for not being able to breast feed twins (only one working breast due to lumps being removed, very small breasts so it was physically difficult to hold two babies, partner who was not coping, lactation consultant who despite repeated requests didn&#8217;t turn up until day four!, a houseful of people the day I came home (also day four), on tenterhooks waiting to hear about my PhD dissertation so very little emotional energy, one small weak baby who didn&#8217;t latch or suck well).  I had previously fed my elder daughter for a year with no problems &#8211; it was a joy for both of us.  As you can see, all the reasons for stopping breast feeding were personal, not social, except for the lactation consultant.  And I couldn&#8217;t help thinking that if only I had tried a little harder, maybe we could have managed.  </p>
<p>I genuinely think that my guilt and disappointment was very much an internal matter.  It was a standard I had set myself, and I didn&#8217;t meet it.  My Plunket nurse (in-home nurse visiting service in New Zealand) was supportive, as was my doctor, and my obstetrician.  They all said, more-or-less, that yes, it was a shame that I hadn&#8217;t been able to breast feed, but the girls were doing very well, and they had all the other things you could possibly wish for.</p>
<p>So there you have it.  It was an internal standard, not an external judgement.  No one else seemed in the least bit upset that I was bottle feeding my twins.  At the same time, I wanted to hold up a sign saying, &#8220;I tried.  I really did!&#8221;  On the other hand, I would endorse the benefits of breast feeding, every single time.  There&#8217;s no doubt that it is better than bottle feeding.  Maybe bottle feeders, including me, just need to get over it.  Bottle feeding done well is fine, and babies will do well enough on it.  It just not as good.  And there&#8217;s a distinction between &#8220;not as good&#8221; and &#8220;bad.&#8221;  Bottle feeding done well is the former, not the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: MomTFH</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132565</link>
		<dc:creator>MomTFH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132565</guid>
		<description>Deborah, can I ask you something? I am sure that guilt and disappointment with problems with breastfeeding are very real and emotionally painful. 

Here in the United States,11% of women exclusively breastfeed for 6 months. (I would imagine this number is lower in women with multiples). Did you know how common it was to use formula when you felt that way? Would it have mattered?

I just wonder why there is such a sense of isolation, such a sense of needing to hide in shame from many women. When 89% of women are in this situation, why is there a sense from some (not all by any shot and not by your comment) that people who use formula are some ostracized minority? 

I don&#039;t think that we should ignore women&#039;s pain from having trouble breastfeeding. However, in some situations, in fact in most discussions I have participated in on breastfeeding in a setting that is not specifically pro-lactation (almost all parenting sites, for example) has involved someone pretending that formula feeders have some sort of veto power over public promotion of breastfeeding&#039;s benefits, citing that formula feeders are a sensitive, triggered minority that cannot hear such hurtful things, no matter how sensitively they are couched or how non judgmentally they are presented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deborah, can I ask you something? I am sure that guilt and disappointment with problems with breastfeeding are very real and emotionally painful. </p>
<p>Here in the United States,11% of women exclusively breastfeed for 6 months. (I would imagine this number is lower in women with multiples). Did you know how common it was to use formula when you felt that way? Would it have mattered?</p>
<p>I just wonder why there is such a sense of isolation, such a sense of needing to hide in shame from many women. When 89% of women are in this situation, why is there a sense from some (not all by any shot and not by your comment) that people who use formula are some ostracized minority? </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that we should ignore women&#8217;s pain from having trouble breastfeeding. However, in some situations, in fact in most discussions I have participated in on breastfeeding in a setting that is not specifically pro-lactation (almost all parenting sites, for example) has involved someone pretending that formula feeders have some sort of veto power over public promotion of breastfeeding&#8217;s benefits, citing that formula feeders are a sensitive, triggered minority that cannot hear such hurtful things, no matter how sensitively they are couched or how non judgmentally they are presented.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132399</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132399</guid>
		<description>fentonslee: Glad you liked it. It&#039;s always ok to link; just not to quote in its entirety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fentonslee: Glad you liked it. It&#8217;s always ok to link; just not to quote in its entirety.</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132398</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132398</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;One of my biggest pet peeves is when formula feeders paint themsleves to be the underdogs. The omnipresent, majority underdogs.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes... but one of the times I have most felt that I had failed as a mother was when because of reasons, I couldn&#039;t keep on feeding my infant twins, and had to bottle-feed instead.  It took me months to stop feeling guilty and wrong and bad.  I didn&#039;t take the girls out much because I didn&#039;t want to have to feed them in public, because I felt that people were judging me to be a bad mother.  On the other side of that, there are many, many mothers of twins who are breastfeeding and don&#039;t go out, because there seems to be no way that they can feed in public.

However, no one told me that I was dirty or freak or that I shouldn&#039;t do that here or I shouldn&#039;t have a cup of coffee.  No one actually policed my behaviour; it was more my own internal voice that harangued me - what the nuns would have called my conscience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>One of my biggest pet peeves is when formula feeders paint themsleves to be the underdogs. The omnipresent, majority underdogs.</i></p>
<p>Yes&#8230; but one of the times I have most felt that I had failed as a mother was when because of reasons, I couldn&#8217;t keep on feeding my infant twins, and had to bottle-feed instead.  It took me months to stop feeling guilty and wrong and bad.  I didn&#8217;t take the girls out much because I didn&#8217;t want to have to feed them in public, because I felt that people were judging me to be a bad mother.  On the other side of that, there are many, many mothers of twins who are breastfeeding and don&#8217;t go out, because there seems to be no way that they can feed in public.</p>
<p>However, no one told me that I was dirty or freak or that I shouldn&#8217;t do that here or I shouldn&#8217;t have a cup of coffee.  No one actually policed my behaviour; it was more my own internal voice that harangued me &#8211; what the nuns would have called my conscience.</p>
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		<title>By: fentonslee.blogspot.com/</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132397</link>
		<dc:creator>fentonslee.blogspot.com/</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132397</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this post. Powerfully written. Is it alright if I link to it from my blog?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this post. Powerfully written. Is it alright if I link to it from my blog?</p>
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		<title>By: emailtoid.net/i/530e5c9a/&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132326</link>
		<dc:creator>emailtoid.net/i/530e5c9a/&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132326</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been pleasently surprised at the support I&#039;ve been getting.  I live in CA (not sure if that helps), but when I tell people I&#039;m still breastfeeding my 7 mo old I usually get a &quot;Great for you!!!&quot;  and &quot;That&#039;s the best thing for him.&quot;  I got this on a recent Amtrak trip. I nursed the way down and back with no comments or odd looks.  I was slightly discrete, let the shirt flop down a little, but I can&#039;t use a nursing cover or blanket as my son HATES them and why push it.  I find my husband is more squeamish about it than I am (but he wasn&#039;t with us).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been pleasently surprised at the support I&#8217;ve been getting.  I live in CA (not sure if that helps), but when I tell people I&#8217;m still breastfeeding my 7 mo old I usually get a &#8220;Great for you!!!&#8221;  and &#8220;That&#8217;s the best thing for him.&#8221;  I got this on a recent Amtrak trip. I nursed the way down and back with no comments or odd looks.  I was slightly discrete, let the shirt flop down a little, but I can&#8217;t use a nursing cover or blanket as my son HATES them and why push it.  I find my husband is more squeamish about it than I am (but he wasn&#8217;t with us).</p>
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		<title>By: mama72</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132278</link>
		<dc:creator>mama72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132278</guid>
		<description>sing it sister!!! 
well said. thanks, that was inspiring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sing it sister!!!<br />
well said. thanks, that was inspiring.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132277</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132277</guid>
		<description>For those people elsewhere who are sceptical that a woman ever had a gun pointed at her for breastfeeding, here&#039;s the story.

&quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/immigration-officer-points-weapon-at-11-week-old-breastfeeding-baby/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Immigration Officer Points Weapon at 11 Week Old Breastfeeding Baby&lt;/a&gt;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those people elsewhere who are sceptical that a woman ever had a gun pointed at her for breastfeeding, here&#8217;s the story.</p>
<p>&#8220;<a href="http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/immigration-officer-points-weapon-at-11-week-old-breastfeeding-baby/" rel="nofollow">Immigration Officer Points Weapon at 11 Week Old Breastfeeding Baby</a>&#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: MomTFH</title>
		<link>http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090625.5497/gone-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-132234</link>
		<dc:creator>MomTFH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=5497#comment-132234</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read all the comments, but let me say, hear hear. Let me add one on:

Show me the formula feeder who is told the only reason she is formula feeding and defending it is to feel superior and more-natural-than-thou than other moms. 

Show me the formula feeder who is told not to discuss her formula feeding choices because she is putting down other moms.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when formula feeders paint themsleves to be the underdogs. The omnipresent, majority underdogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read all the comments, but let me say, hear hear. Let me add one on:</p>
<p>Show me the formula feeder who is told the only reason she is formula feeding and defending it is to feel superior and more-natural-than-thou than other moms. </p>
<p>Show me the formula feeder who is told not to discuss her formula feeding choices because she is putting down other moms.</p>
<p>One of my biggest pet peeves is when formula feeders paint themsleves to be the underdogs. The omnipresent, majority underdogs.</p>
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