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19 responses to “On Ophelia, Who Never Got to Be a Hoyden”

  1. blue milk

    This is a truly fascinating post. Especially as this is an area I know so little about I loved every word. Thank you.

  2. Helen

    Yes fascinating, meaty post. More please!

  3. Emily

    Brilliant post, thank you! The character of Ophelia has always fascinated and troubled me, especially given the status of Hamlet as a ‘universal’ play. Your analysis of Brannagh’s Ophelia is particularly interesting. On one hand I really appreciated his willingness to confront the way in which Ophelia is manipulated by the men around her, but I can equally see your point, that he exaggerates Hamlet’s violence against her far beyond what the text directs.

  4. tigtog

    I found the insights from Frances Barber especially illuminating. It doesn’t surprise me at all that she’d at least attempt to keep the bastards honest.

    I ended up with a severe mistrust for other reasons over my main teacher/director at drama school’s attitude to women as characters, writers and actors, but at least he didn’t add an “edgy” moment of non-textual violence to his interpretation of Hamlet’s interactions with Ophelia.

  5. Deborah

    Thank you! This was fascinating reading.

  6. Tamara

    Thanks Orlando, this was really thoughtprovoking.

  7. Peta

    Encore!

  8. sophia b

    I’m wondering if many here have read/seen ‘Ophelia thinks harder’ by Jean Betts, a New Zealand playwright? Its a feminist farced based around Hamlet, with Ophelia as the main character, and utterly hilarious. I’d highly reccommend it.

  9. Rebekka

    Really interesting, I echo everyone’s comments about great post.

    One thing occured to me though, when I read this:

    If Hamlet is going to be violent towards Ophelia, perhaps it is better that he be a Hamlet like this one who is unequivocally a vicious, self-centred thug, rather than one who continues to try to charm the audience.

    Isn’t that kind of buying into the stereotype that it’s only people who you’d immediately spot as an arsehole who are violent towards women (and in particular, who are rapists), when in fact that’s not the case? Or am I missing the point?

  10. tigtog

    Isn’t that kind of buying into the stereotype that it’s only people who you’d immediately spot as an arsehole who are violent towards women (and in particular, who are rapists), when in fact that’s not the case? Or am I missing the point?

    I think the key phrase in orlando’s point is “continues to try to charm the audience“. Since the audience is supposed to be privy to his most private thoughts and motivations, it should be clear to the audience that he’s a vicious arsehole even though he successfully charms the other characters.

    But I may be misreading here.

  11. Napalmnacey

    Brilliant post. Makes me want to write a punk song about Ophelia where she runs away and starts a rebellion with the nuns.

  12. orlando

    Thank you everyone, for the kind feedback. And especially thank you tigtog, for all the formatting you did on this (I didn’t realise it was going to be so much work), and for choosing the picture. It’s shameful, but I had no idea that painting was of a traceable person.
    Rebekka, one of the main things I do when I’m analysing a performance is try to distinguish who on stage is being supported by the framing of the action in such a way that the audience is being asked to identify or sympathise with them. I might rephrase that passage if I write up a formal version of this to make it clear that what I am criticizing is the expectation that we will maintain a sympathetic connection with someone who behaves that way.

  13. tigtog

    I had no idea that painting was of a traceable person

    I didn’t either until last year, when I saw a BBC drama about the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, which I thought struck a very nice balance between the Romanticism with with the PRB were viewed by themselves and by their fans and the self-destructive selfishness and indulgence that went along with it all, especially with Dante Gabriel Rosetti (and there wasn’t nearly enough Christina). Great cast, and it inspired me to do some more independent reading about the PRB afterwards, and why hasn’t it all been made into an opera?

  14. tigtog

    try to distinguish who on stage is being supported by the framing of the action in such a way that the audience is being asked to identify or sympathise with them

    I wonder, with the continuing problem of Hamlets playing even his soliloquys and private moments purely as the traditional tormented psyche who elicits audience sympathy, whether part of it isn’t just that directors like that simplicity, and most actors are going to instinctively play the role so that they do get audience sympathy in those moments, because actors are people too (we hate being hated) and one needs to be very determined in one’s craft to truly pull off a repellent anti-hero with full commitment. Unless both the Hamlet and the director are on board with playing the soliloquys rather more like they would traditionally play Richard III or Iago (both normally played by much older and more experienced actors) I bet it wouldn’t work, so I suspect most productions simply aren’t capable of being that ‘brave’.

  15. Helen

    I’ve been looking and looking for a very tattered old book of comic verse which I stole inherited from the parents. Nothing doing, so I’ll try to rely on memory, ahem,
    “The ..[something something] Elizabeth Siddal
    Lay in a bathtub up to her middle
    (But richly gowned)
    To show what she would look like drowned,
    [something something something]
    It’s enough to congeal ya,
    Posing for Ophelia”.

  16. orlando

    Tigtog, I think I saw the problem you identify play itself out in a production of Troilus and Cressida. I am convinced that Joseph Fiennes was deliberately and brilliantly showing Troilus to be unheroically flawed: self-absorbed, narcissistic and ultimately unworthy of Cressida, but he got mostly terrible reviews from critics who thought he must have been playing a conventional hero and doing it badly. The perils of artistic audacity!

  17. Valerie Meachum

    Brilliant from top to bottom. Thank you! It’s amazing to me how far people can stray from what is and is not supported by the text, without even realizing it. What might be discovered and illuminated in performance by examining and questioning this now-traditional approach, and going back to the text for an alternative?

    And I must add my thanks to Tigtog as well, because this post came to my attention via my Google Alerts for Lizzie Siddal, about whom I’m developing a one-woman show. :-) Hooray for serendipity! (And as much as I love DR in all its irreverent, historically-cavalier glory, any Christina would have been nice to have! Gabriel’s family was incredibly integral to his life, but the show’s version appears to have sprung full-grown from a fairy ring for the express purpose of making a bunch of friends and driving them all nuts. But I digress.)

  18. tigtog

    @Valerie Meachum

    this post came to my attention via my Google Alerts for Lizzie Siddal, about whom I’m developing a one-woman show. :-) Hooray for serendipity!

    Good luck with the show, and I do so hope that it’s festival-friendly and you might be able to get it showcased at an Aussie festival once it’s ready. I’d love to see that.

  19. Chally

    Oh, orlando, you really are a theatre person after my own heart.

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