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Article written by tigtog

tigtog (aka Viv) is the founder of this blog. She lives in Sydney, Australia: husband, 2 kids, cat, house, garden, just enough wine-racks and (sigh) far too few bookshelves. You can read more about Viv on her bio page.

15 responses to “Sonoma County demonstrates why I support marriage equality”

  1. meloukhia

    I would like to note that this story is about a lot more than marriage equality; people should not have to get married to have their relationships respected and we don’t know if Harold and Clay even wanted to be married. What is disturbing here is that they did everything ‘by the book’ in terms of getting advance directives and other paperwork squared away, and that was rampantly ignored by the County of Sonoma.

  2. Mindy

    Even if Clay Greene wins his court case, he will never be able to get those three months back. I hope he does win and the law is changed so that this can’t happen to anyone else. Theft and destruction of your life is just appalling.

  3. SunlessNick

    Their wishes and legal directives should have been respected anyway.

    As someone at Pam’s House Blend pointed out, even without a marriage,* the representation of the two men as roommates was a legal misrepresentation. The county’s lawyers should be up before the bar. And the county should be facing criminal charges over the theft, as well as civil suit.

    * A tangent, but I disagree with making “marriage” the term for the religious ceremony – that’s a wedding, and that term is perfectly good – marriage is the being, not the becoming.

  4. Beppie

    we don’t know if Harold and Clay even wanted to be married.

    This is true, but I still think that marriage equality is pertinent here. I very much doubt that this would have happened to a de facto heterosexual couple — and a big part of the reason for that is because even the potential to get married gives het relationships a measure social and cultural validity that is currently denied to same-sex couples.

    As a heterosexual woman who has no desire to marry (and who agrees with Tigtog that some sort of civil registry is all we need in a legal sense), I know that I am still privileged simply by the fact that other people know that I am able to marry/other people are willing to assume that I am married/other people are willing to assume that my relationship is marriage-like even if I haven’t had the ceremony. All of this confers privilege — the sort of privilege that protects heterosexual couples from horror stories like the one above. I think that marriage equality is necessarily because it will help to redress those inequalities, even for same sex couple who chose not to wed.

  5. Chris

    I think separating marriage and ‘domestic partnerships’ is a terrible idea. There is no ‘reverting’ marriage back to religion. Marriage only became a religious ceremony around the 14th century, before then it had little to do with religion at all. Furthermore, taking the word marriage away from the 60% of Australians who get married outside a church is just wrong.

  6. Beppie

    But Chris, there wouldn’t be any law that says that non-religous people can’t use the word marriage to describe their relationship. It just means that the word “marriage” wouldn’t have legal status — it’s the term “domestic partnership” that would have legal implications.

    I do, however, feel that it’s unrealistic to expect this sort of cultural shift to happen quickly, which is why I DO support marriage equality.

  7. Chris

    If that’s the case then it would be the same as the status-quo except we’re calling it domestic partnerships instead of marriage. And that would only seem to change the current situation if it was really the word marriage that people objected to gays having when (in my opinion of course) it’s just legitimacy they don’t want them to have, no matter what that legitimacy is called.

  8. Mary

    Perhaps the ‘religious’ part of religious blessings should be entirely separated from state recognition of people’s partnerships is unnecessary: I take it what we’re envisaging is something like the current status of naming children? In Australia, you can baptise or dedicate or otherwise have a religious naming/introduction ceremony or you can have a secular one (there are even professionals who offer to, roughly, take the role a minister would in a Christian service) , but all of these are extra-legal; the legal process of naming a child is that of filling out a form for their birth certificate and establishing their name by usage and custom. There would be nothing preventing secular couples any more than religious ones from having a wedding ceremony and thinking of their relationship as a marriage, it’s just that in neither case would it be a legal status.

    Returning to the subject of the post I grieve for Clay Greene and Harold Scull for their loss of each other in the months before Scull died and the shameful and disgusting theft of their possessions. tigtog’s suggestion that marriage equality would increase recognition of same-sex partnerships both married and not seems right but one case of abuse more would be millions of abuses too many.

  9. SunlessNick

    In the long term, religious blessings should be entirely separated from state recognition of people’s partnerships.

    Yes. I just think the word “marriage” should apply to the second, not the first.

    I very much doubt that this would have happened to a de facto heterosexual couple — and a big part of the reason for that is because even the potential to get married gives het relationships a measure social and cultural validity that is currently denied to same-sex couples.

    Agreed, both the doubt and the reason for it.

  10. Anna

    In this case, as in many others, I do not think that marriage equality would make a different. These people refused to respect a legal document – many legal documents, if I understand the case properly. Similar things have happened to spouses in same sex marriages in Canada, in terms of refusing to allow people to be at bedsides. (Again, the “roommate” idea was presented, even though there was an actual legally recognized marriage.)

    It’s a case where legal paperwork was not respected. It’s a case where a dying man was abused – and I think we all know that elder abuse is a huge problem, and this is just a small portion of that. I think this is definitely influenced by lack of marriage equality, but I don’t think the sort of people who would ignore legal paper work and abuse elderly disabled patients in this way would have respected a marriage certificate any more than similar cases here in Nova Scotia and across Canada have.

    And, frankly, even if Greene was Scull’s room mate and not his partner, they should have followed that directive. That’s the whole point of legal paperwork. And it was all ignored.

  11. Rebekka

    “Marriage only became a religious ceremony around the 14th century”

    A nit-pick, if you’re talking about a Christian religious ceremony, it actually it wasn’t until the Council of Trent, mid-16th century, for Catholics and around the same time (tied up with the reformation) for Protestants.

    That said, this whole situation made me feel so appalled. Although they may not have wanted to get married, as others have said, even being able to reject marriage gives a relationship more status.

  12. Mindy

    If only we could get past the idea that letting anyone marry as they wished would be the end of marriage (oh doom, oh the sky is falling). It doesn’t seem to have happened in European countries that allow gay marriage. No one has ever been able to tell me how my marriage would be affected by allowing gay marriage, or equal rights when it comes to property, children, superannuation etc.

n.b. our posts are closed to new comments after 60 days. If you wish to discuss a closed post, please use the latest open thread.

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