I wrote a while back about Special Religious Education (SRE) in State schools in Australia. The are problems both with the concept itself, and with the State-by-State implementation.
WA Today reports that some Victorian students may soon have access to a humanist education alternative in SRE time, instead of being sat down to do homework while their friends are eating lollies and singing songs. The course will take an applied ethics approach, covering “subjects such as the art of living, the environment, philosophy, science and world citizenship”, and will aim to ground children in the basics of critical thought, equality, and enlightened democracy.
The plan is meeting with resistance from Christian lobby groups.
WA Today: Religion in schools to go God-free [links are mine]:
The Humanist Society of Victoria has developed a curriculum, which the State Government accreditation body says it intends to approve, to deliver 30-minute lessons each week of “humanist applied ethics” to primary pupils.
Accredited volunteers will be able to teach their philosophy in the class time designated for religious instruction. As with lessons delivered by faith groups, parents will be able to request that their children do not participate.
Victorian Humanist Society president Stephen Stuart said: “Atheistical parents will be pleased to hear that humanistic courses of ethics will soon be available in some state schools.”
But the body that accredits Victoria’s 3500 Christian religious instruction volunteers, Access Ministries, says humanism is not a religion and so should not be taught in religious education time. […]
Fundamentalist Christian group the Salt Shakers panned the idea of humanists being given religious education class time.
Research director Jenny Stokes said: “If you go there, where do you stop? What about witchcraft or Satanism? If you accredit humanism, then those things would have an equal claim to be taught in schools.” […]
Ms Stokes said humanists could not expect to have it both ways. “It doesn’t make sense because they proclaim themselves not to be a religion,” she said.
Religious instruction in state schools should be Christian because “basically we are a Christian nation”, she said.
May this be the first step.
Categories: culture wars, education, ethics & philosophy, gender & feminism, religion
Hoyden About Town 
headdesk @ Ms Stokes. In my experience getting Humanist Socs to do something productive is like herding cats, but pointlesser, so good for them.
It’s such a no-brainer to me — and I thought CHOICE CHOICE CHOICE was the holiest of holies in education these days — but so politically taboo. The NSW Govt runs a freakin’ mile from the mere idea.
Research director Jenny Stokes said: “If you go there, where do you stop? What about witchcraft or Satanism? If you accredit humanism, then those things would have an equal claim to be taught in schools.” […]
Uh… actually those things are RELIGIONS, so her proposed model that says only religions can be taught in religious education time would be more accommodating of their inclusion if people wanted to provide the class.
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Religious instruction in state schools should be Christian because “basically we are a Christian nation”, she said.
*eyetwitches* Only barely, now days. Last Census had nearly 40% of the population not considering themselves Christian.
And by those standards, we’re also a “White Nation”, a “Heterosexual Nation”, an “Able-Bodied Nation”, and Maude knows what else. Most of which, I suspect, the Salt Shakers would love just fine.
I’m also guessing that plenty of the people who identified themselves as, say, “Catholic” or “Anglican” in the Census, if questioned, actually don’t believe in God; and a small minority are actually actively involved in a church.
If she is making a popularity-based argument: if some 20-or-30-something% of the population openly identify as atheist, why support the teaching of Judaism, Buddhism, and Baha’i in schools, which are much smaller segments of the population?
Why does Victoria have all the cool stuff happen to it? NSW needs to catch up.
Also, the “Salt Shakers”? I knew it. The Christian Clergies are in cahoots with the Daleks!
PON-TIF-I-CATE
PON-TIF-I-CATE
PON-TIF-I-CATE
GOLD!
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*dies laughing*
Oh lord, I’m not going to sleep tonight. On the other hand, I would totally be behind religious education in schools that covered a wide range of faiths and practices. Strange how the fundies who usually scream about “freedom of religion” draw the line at anything that doesn’t fit their own worldview.
I had “Bible class” at primary school, including a lovely lesson on how evolution was a lie and the Book of Genesis was literal truth. Now, I had a geologist-professor grandfather so I was pretty sure this was rubbish, but Jesus, I was NINE. Not much room to set up a fair dialogue with imposing dogmatics whos your *real* teacher has clearly ceded authority to for the time being.
It’s the lollies that get me. At Easter the local holy joes came by my daughters’ school to give a lesson. I pulled the girls out of the class, but at the expense of them forgoing Easter eggs. By Christmas I had wised up. I promised the girls that I would match and double any sweet treats the christians handed out. So two of them chose to stay out. The third wen ther own sweet way to the Christmas service.
Fortunately, 2 x 0 is 0. And my one attendee felt cheated.
“But the body that accredits Victoria’s 3500 Christian religious instruction volunteers, Access Ministries, says humanism is not a religion and so should not be taught in religious education time.”
I say that religion is not education and should not be “taught” in education time.
In public schools at least.
Perhaps I’m showing my age. I can remember when the fast track to devil worship was playing Dungeons and Dragons…
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Were there enough Jedi’s in the last census to make it an official religion?
Also, the “Salt Shakers”? I knew it. The Christian Clergies are in cahoots with the Daleks!
Following on from our discussion over at your place, Hellon, we could totally go and teach Doctor Who in religion class. 🙂 With Jelly Babies!
I can remember when the fast track to devil worship was playing Dungeons and Dragons…
My scripture teacher told me I was evil for staging a mock-seance with my sister. 🙂
I always hated that there wasn’t an opt-out clause for those classes on the grounds of not being Christian– the JWs and Catholics were allowed to not attend, or to attend alternative classes, but simply not believing in god wasn’t good enough.
I must have belonged to one of the few schools, in both primary and secondary, where non-Scripture classes were straightforward and didn’t suck – we just went to the library and used it for recreation or getting a head-start on homework as we willed. In primary school there was me and one other Anglo guy and two Jewish boys, in high school there were a couple of dozen of us.
It just wasn’t a big deal, which is exactly the right way to play it as far as I can see. Occasionally I went as a guest to other people’s scripture classes out of politeness and/or curiosity, and that was never a problem either – I just made sure that the librarian knew that was where I was going to be.
Very rare Tigtog, even in this day and age. If I didn’t want my son to attend, my option was pretty much to come to the school and look after him during scripture. But at least he’s getting the right take home message “my god is so big, so mighty, so evil, there’s nothing my god can ever do”. (Not to be sung in front of church going grandparents).
Tigtog: For upper primary, I reckon the library is fine, so long as the Scripture kids aren’t being fed “treats” and the non-Scripture kids excluded from that.
In lower primary and the preliterate times I have a bigger problem with pulling a single kid out of their classroom and sending them off somewhere to do some non-programmed, non-educational activity (Colouring-in alone for an hour?). I think they’re more acutely tuned in to their class cohesiveness and who is being pulled out for being “different”, without necessarily being mature enough to understand the whys properly.
I also, of course, have a major problem with Christianity classes legally being opt-out instead of opt-in. And, on the next level up, I have a problem with any doctrinal classes being taught in State schools at all. I think it should be fully-inclusive GRE only. Go to church and Sunday school on your own time ‘n’ dime.
The weekly RE classes up this way involve kiddies having a choice of a happy clappy funathon or getting stuck in an unairconditioned room and made to do math problems (no joke).
Beppie – NZ has always (to my knowledge, and certainly when I was at primary) allowed kids to opt-out of religious education. But I know I (even as a stroppy kid, even as a kid whose mother bothered to ask if I wanted to opt out) didn’t want to be the Weird Kid Who Leaves During Bible Class. Because Bible class was *never* kept distinct from normal learning. Kids were *never* told that actually, the school is technically closed during Bible class time and that they were allowed to go home for half an hour if they wanted. And there’s such a crazy power dynamic going on, without even adding the religious indoctrination (have to listen to Bible teacher, *he* knows Jesus personally!) … Christ it makes me mad to this day.
QoT– yeah, I have a friend from NZ who was allowed to opt out of Bible class, but ultimately chose to go back simply due to the alienation factor. Still, it’s better than just being told that the option doesn’t exist for you at all (and hell, I was already alienated in primary school, so I doubt it would have made a difference to me).
I’m pretty sure that in QLD in the 70’s RE stopped when I was in about year 4 and there was none at all in high school. On the other hand my year 3 teacher was so heavily into religion that she spent all of that year reading us bible stories (bad) and Dickens (great) to the exclusion of pretty much everything else, left in disgrace and the following year started teaching at one of those Assembly of God schools where students sat in individual cubicles in complete silence. I was very close to her and she would invite me to her house on weekends so I got extra doses but still it didn’t take. I am 100% irredeemable heathen apparently.
I asked numerous times for my eldest to be withdrawn from scripture as he was coming home and reenacting the crucifixion (highly literal thinker) on our clothes line. He would be withdrawn for a while and then they would just ‘forget’. Really disrespectful. Apparently there was some deal when the state took over education from the anglicans in NSW and that is why scripture is so thoroughly welded onto state education. It is bizarre to me that they are still pushing scripture in high school.
I asked numerous times for my eldest to be withdrawn from scripture as he was coming home and reenacting the crucifixion (highly literal thinker) on our clothes line.
When I was a kid, one Easter, my siblings and I, along with some neighbouring kids, decided to act out a full passion play (we didn’t know the term “passion play”, but that’s what it was). However, we made a cardboard Jesus for the crucifiction– we marked out a cross on the ground using skewers and string, and we used skewers and ample amounts of tomato sauce for nails and blood. 😛
I think that most of us were non-believers, but it seemed like fun, and since I was the only one who really paid attention in Scripture (I enjoyed the stories, even though I hated the dogma), I got to be the Boss of the Game: “Yes, Judas, you have to kiss Jesus, and you can’t say ick, because IT’S IN THE BIBLE”–I could make the dogma work for me when I needed it to, hypocrite that I was!
for the crucifiction
Er, crucifixion, that should be. Although maybe cruci-fiction is, in fact, more appropriate for a non-believer. 😛
Heh. Kiss-crucifixion hey? Kinky. I made the same typo! Freudian typos.
I had mixed experiences with scripture in my entirely state education. At one primary school we actually said the Lord’s Prayer every assembly. And at yr 7/8 high school we had no scripture at all and everyone got to go home early on Mondays.
It seems its very much up to the attitude of the authorities at a school level.
If you go there, where do you stop? What about witchcraft or Satanism?
Now their getting it. Yes indeed.
Perhaps I’m showing my age. I can remember when the fast track to devil worship was playing Dungeons and Dragons…
My understanding is the Chick Tract that claimed this is now a collector’s items among gamers…
My understanding is the Chick Tract that claimed this is now a collector’s items among gamers…
Oh yes. “You’ve reached the ninth level. It’s time to learn some real spells.” ‘Tis quoted as often as “I cast magic missile at the darkness!”
Where are the Cheetos?
My understanding is the Chick Tract that claimed this is now a collector’s items among gamers…
Damn! Wish I’d kept the one my step-brother gave me…
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One of the things which used to be an annoyance in my family was that RE classes were just so damn dull; both my mother and myself got bored rigid by them, because they were re-iterating things we already knew.
I should explain. My mother was raised Christadelphian, and my Dad, when I was in primary school (and thus liable to be educated about religion) was a minister of the Churches of Christ. I grew up going to church every Sunday (and being one of two children in the congregation – the other was my younger brother) and having to sit still and at least look as though I was paying attention during the service. By the time they started RE classes for all the kids in the school (not just the Catholics) I already knew all the stuff they were trying to teach us, and having it taught to me again by someone who wasn’t willing to discuss my questions and/or didn’t do the voices right didn’t achieve anything except boring me silly.
So it seems RE classes aren’t really for those who attend church on a regular basis and pay attention any more than they’re for those who choose not to believe in the Christian god. This raises the question of who these classes are aimed at and what they’re supposed to achieve, something which might well be worth clarifying prior to discarding the notion of humanist ethics classes.
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didn’t do the voices right didn’t
Meg Thorton, please elaborate! 😀
Adding my experiences here. I went to high school (a public one) in northern NSW in the 90s, a reasonably liberal time and place and school, I think. During my first year, every year level got a term’s worth of weekly religion classes. I don’t remember how many religions there were because I went to a free classroom with a group of other students. We had a teacher to supervise and we were free to do homework or read or whatever. I later found out my parents had put me down as ‘no religion’ which explained why I had to do classes in my primary school but not high school. I agree that singling kids out as ‘non-religious’, if everyone else does lessons, is problematic – I always felt weird about the one Jehovah’s Witness and my four Catholic friends at school sitting out our Anglican lessons. I didn’t get why they had to have something different.
Then at the end of the year (year 7 at highschool), my school announced that everyone would get the last period of every Friday off, in lieu of having RE. Instead the junior school and senior school would each have one day of Christian religious instruction per year. We thought it was a super sweet deal. Now I look back and I can’t believe how sensible it sounds.
I was interested in the general religion subject offered in year 11 and 12 but ended up choosing other stuff. I think that is the best way to offer religion in schools. I couldn’t agree more with the commenter who said they don’t want religion taught in education time as it’s not education. Totally.
A girl I was at Uni with had religious education as part of her schooling at a Catholic school, but their religious education included all religions (although probably not Wicca). They did units on the major ones and looked briefly at the others. Of course, Catholicism was held up as the best religion but the school felt that it was a good idea for the kids to know about all religions. I would support this type of religious education happening in public schools because I think it is educational to learn about different religions.
Purrdence – by “not doing the voices right” I mean they didn’t do it the same way Mum and Dad did when I was still young enough to want things read to me. I felt if I was going to have to listen to stories I’d learned by heart years ago, they could at least do them *right*, drattit!
Mum used to read Biggles books in scripture classes. I had to settle for Enid Blyton and the “Chalet School” books instead.
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That’s so cool, Meg 🙂