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tigtog (aka Viv) is the founder of this blog. She lives in Sydney, Australia: husband, 2 kids, cat, house, garden, just enough wine-racks and (sigh) far too few bookshelves.

This author has written 3411 posts for Hoyden About Town. Read more about tigtog »

14 responses to “Friday Feminism on the run: Nice Guys (TM) redux and what makes an ideal husband and father”

  1. Grendel

    Fair cop – insipid tastes like?

  2. tigtog

    Not quite with you there, Grendel. More context?

  3. Rebekka

    I said that? Gee, sometimes I come out with stuff that actually sounds quite intelligent!

    I surprise myself. Particularly on a Friday afternoon where I drank wine at lunchtime and now my brain doesn’t work.

  4. tigtog

    Oh, good catch, it was indeed Deborah I meant to name there. Oops. I’d better fix that.

  5. Helen

    Oh my Gahd.

    On one hand he was a serial killer no better than Dahmer and Gacy.

    On the other, he was pro-life.

    Right. A serial killer. Whose redeeming feature is that he’s, y’know, pro-life.

    Shame about all those born people. Still an’ all, borned people get ugly and old and wrinkly and they’re just not as much fun as little foetuses.

  6. Mary Tracy9

    “All that needs to be sacrificed is a selfish sense of entitlement.”

    That is the problem. Right there. Summed up in that little line.

  7. debg

    I’ve long believed that if every man tried to be the sort of guy he’d want his daughter to marry, the world would be a better place. (NB: That doesn’t mean the daughter HAS to marry, just that her dad would want someone worthy of her.)

  8. Kip Watson

    Fair enough.

    What about a good wife, then.

    Not enough to be faithful, a hard working mother to his children, a good cook and an attentive lover, she should strive to positively affirm her husband’s masculinity in all that she does.

    Is that how it works?

  9. Rebekka

    S’alright. Was quite happy to take credit for obviously intelligent and erudite statement about men.

  10. tigtog

    Kip,

    you seem to have a thumb on that logical equivalence scale.

    Corleone was held up by a twerp as an ideal husband because he didn’t drink or womanise (i.e. refrained from two negative behaviours), and Deborah and I said “it takes a bit more than that” (referring to a few positive behaviours).

    You are holding up a woman who is “faithful, a hard working mother to his children, a good cook and an attentive lover” and saying “oh, so it should need a bit more than that from her too”. I see one negative behaviour to refrain from on your list, and three positive behaviours already being performed.

    You’re comparing apples and oranges here, Kip.

    Also, your suggestion that a good wife needs to affirm her husband’s masculinity? I’m guessing you drew that from my statement that a good man is one who “affirms women in his interactions with them”, and I find your conclusion that it is women’s femininity that should be affirmed (rather then women’s individuality) a rather troubling demonstration of Totally Missing The Point.

  11. Kip Watson

    Truthfully, I think of some of the modern women I’ve met over the years and the disgraceful, spiteful way they’ve treated their men, inspired as they were by feminist philosophy; and I think they should regard them as the finest husbands imaginable simply for not walking out on them.

    …sadly, the men usually do leave in those situations. (I count a couple of relatives in there, so it is genuinely sad.)

  12. tigtog

    You seem to be using people’s responses here to go off on a prepared anti-feminist rant. That is usually called derailing the thread, and it’s irritating.

    To keep it on topic. Some people, both men and women, are selfish jerks who treat their partners badly. Sometimes treating a partner badly is not just the obvious spiteful and deceitful stuff, sometimes treating a partner badly is adhering conspicuously to the dutiful stuff as a status thing and neglecting the kind, caring interest stuff.

    There’s a particular traditional view of marriage wherein a husband is considered ideal if he refrains from the deceptive and spiteful stuff, performs the dutiful stuff reliably, and that women have no right to expect anything more. I think that refraining from deceit and spite and being reliable are the minimum standards that make an adequate husband/father, and that a good/ideal husband/father should be kind and caring and interested as well.

    Obviously this goes for what men should expect from women as well (and for what same-sex couples should expect from their partners too). Why on earth wouldn’t it?

  13. Mindy

    Slightly OT – the hubby last night had a spit at John Howard for calling the victorious Australian Netball team ‘girls’ instead of women. He commented that JH wouldn’t call the Socceroos ‘boys’. I was so proud!

  14. Mindy

    Kip – I don’t find I need to affirm my husband’s masculinity. He isn’t frightened by my feminism. We work as a team. Maybe the men in your family were frightened of their wives? Maybe it takes two to tango? I wasn’t party to the intricacies of their marriages, but then neither were you so I think blaming it all on feminism is a bit silly. But then we all blame things we are frightened of.

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